I know the notion of gateway drug will get major push back. People point to studies suggesting that most pot users never go beyond pot. And, others can point to other studies suggesting the opposite. Please go to rehab centers for hard drug users, and ask about the path. Talk to people who work with prisoners, now jailed because of crimes needed to sustain a drug habit. Talk to family members of those hooked on hard drugs (e.g. heroin, cocaine, etc). What path that got them there. Pot is usually the first encounter with the drug scene. Using the argument to support ;more mind-altering substances to float freely is a failed strategy.

Recently, more and more studies are showing that cognitive skills have been negatively impacted in those who used pot at young ages. In other words, those who have used pot as a teen, and early 20s, found themselves feeling the impact later in life. The loss of cognitive skills in pot users, years after use, is now pretty well understood and acknowledged.

The proposed legislation includes a provision about quantity. Does anybody really think the typical pot user will try to abide by these silly provisions? This is a farce and fools nobody.

Other states have tried "medical pot." The idea sounds great on paper, but fails in reality. The idea of "growing for self" never stops with "self." Pot growing facilities, selling pot to others on a large scale soon becomes the pattern. Recreational use is the only intended use.

So by this logic we need to outlaw alcohol as well. The real issue is enforcement and penalties for users with small amounts. Think of the strain on the legal and prison system if everyone arrested for public intoxication and drunk driving was sen to prison for 6 months. This is what we do for low level dope smokers.
If it was effective then it would be appropriate, but it has not made any difference. So now what?

Most of us know that individuals who use illegal drugs are going to get high—no matter what, so why do you not prefer they acquire them in stores that check IDs and pay taxes? Gifting the market in narcotics to ruthless criminals, foreign terrorists, and corrupt law enforcement officials is seriously compromising our future.

Why do you wish to continue with a policy that has proven itself to be a poison in the veins of our once so "proud & free" nation? Even if you cannot bear the thought of people using drugs, there is absolutely nothing you, or any government, can do to stop them. We have spent 40 years and trillions of dollars on this dangerous farce; Prohibition will not suddenly and miraculously start showing different results. Do you actually believe you may personally have something to lose If we were to begin basing our drug policy on science & logic instead of ignorance, hate and lies?

Maybe you're a police officer, a prison guard, or a local/national politician. Possibly you're scared of losing employment, overtime pay, the many kickbacks, and those regular fat bribes. But what good will any of that do you once our society has followed Mexico over the dystopian abyss of dismembered bodies, vats of acid, and marauding thugs carrying gold-plated AK-47s with leopard-skinned gunstocks?

Kindly allow us to forgo the next level of your sycophantic prohibition-engendered mayhem!

Prohibition prevents regulation: legalize, regulate, and tax!

" The LE is using resources, the court systems are using resources, medical facilities are using re sources, employment productivity is lost. The circle of impact is wide, not just a local, personal world." All those resources are being used to enforce a morally bankrupt policy. They're targeting a substance which has been scientifically proven to be safer than what the Gvt. currently allows. Her's the Science; Refute away if you can, but only with Cited Science. FACT Marijuana is less addictive and less harmful than Caffeine, let alone alcohol and Tobacco; (3 Scientific Studies)
BTW, Dr Henningfield is a former NIDA Staffer;.
Addictiveness of Marijuana - ProCon.org.
http://www.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=1492

Amen to that!!!

Under your argument we should also ban alcohol, narcotic drugs and anything else that alters us in some way...

would you consider alcohol mind altering. If so then you answered your own question. what is the difference except one is already taxed and thus legal. Unless we are going to go all the way back to prohibition then the horse is out of the barn.

It's all about how you handle it. Have you ever heard of a car crash because of pot? Or domestic violence when two were smoking pot? Or someone crashing work equipment because they were high? Probably not. I am 21 and have been smoking pot since I was 15; I have never been unemployed a day since I was 15, I am in college with a 3.5,I volunteer and give back, and plan on joining the Peace Corps or teaching abroad. The most critical thoughts about pot are mostly from those who have never tried it.

With that sentiment then we should make alcohol illegal too I suppose?

Your reasons also apply to alcohol. Lets bring Prohibition back. I know people who do one or the other. The people who drink get into fights, become obnoxious and bullish. People smoking pot laugh, eat and go to sleep. There are positive and negative actions in every thing we do. I say legalize it and use the money to help get us out of debt,and hurt the black market dealers. The legal dept is admittedly losing this war with pot. Pot is a natural substance. Drugs are man made and much more powerful. Take the $ that is being spent on the pot war and use it in the drug war. States that have legalized it are getting out of debt.

It should absolutely be legalized and regulated. You may look down upon drug use, but that doesn't give you the right to outlaw its use, especially when its been shown that outlawing its use does nothing to prevent its use. If you really care about people who use cannabis which you (for some reason) deem unworthy of human consumption, you'll support the policy that does the least additional harm to them. That policy is legalize and regulate.

I would just like to know what u think about precription painkillers or antidepressents, because they also alter your mind and there is hundreds of people who use them and go to work or get behind the wheel of a car, but let me guess you think that is okay because they are given by a doctor but those things are more widely abused than pot. I do know people who suffer from depression and who have been on the prescription drugs and have been less aware of things or who have had bad effects from them, but yet they smoke pot and they are loving and caring and very productive as a matter of fact one i know owns his own business and makes a quarter of a million dollars within six months time. And i'm sorry but if a person can't handle it they shouldn't smoke it, its no different than booze.

Why does anybody wish to use mind-altering substances?" the same reason most people drink.
let me ask you... do you drink before you drive? I assume not. Then why would you assume people will drive after smoking? As for family affected, the only thing I see affecting families is court cost and fines for nothing more then having a smoke. If your not hurting anyone, you still go out have a job and are a contributing member of society then i see no reason you shouldn't be able to go home after a days work and have a joint or beer if that is your thing.

Totally agree with Roger.

@Legalize.....I agree with your sense on this subject but I have to tell you that when you used stigmata instead of stigma...I busted out laughing.....and it's not me playing grammar games because your cell phone or spell check feature may have inserted that word inadvertently.....but I need to thank you for the hilarious typo...whether intentional or incidental...it is utterly hilarious. For real.

People need to quit calling cannabis a drug to begin with. I will define a drug in another thread under here. It is a plant and like all of nature has a purpose. Many plants are used to make drugs people rely on daily as life sustaining medication. Why does marijuana have such a stigma? There is no basis to the associated prejudice over a plant, not substance that has purpose. The health benefits of marijuana cannot be disputed and alcohol alters the mind, but is legal. Working in a busy emergency room for years, I can tell you that the majority of business was from alcohol, not from first time pot smoker who got a little too high and we ordered a pizza. The auto accidents were from people under the influence of alcohol, not marijuana. I have smoked with doctors, nurses, police, lawyers, and many other highly successful people who chose in their spare time, to engage in what makes them feel good. How can you refuse someone their right to access something to make them feel better? You say mind altering: I say medicinal medicine. It is not for the Commonwealth or the Federal Government to refuse the people of what they should have a right to access! It is absolutely time to recognize, that many successful people in this country use cannabis! I don't see the dismal circle of impact as you have implied. Legalization of marijuana would create stable jobs boosting the economy, generate astronomical revenue, and give people the freedom back that upon which this nation was founded!

For marijuana to even be in the Schedule I category is ludicrous. Schedule I criteria must be as follows:
1) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse
The word abuse has no right being in the same sentence as cannabis. Abuse of a substance, would mean the ingestion of a chemical substance in a manner or way that of which it was not intended. People crush pills and snort or inject them, but pharmaceuticals are legal. That is abuse of a drug, not the use of a medicinal plant that has countless health benefits. It is not even in the same league as the potential for abuse list of substances listed under the Schedule I drug classification. If people want to put the plant in brownies, cookies, or rice crispy treats that is for human consumption, not abuse.
2) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States
The known research proves time and time again the medicinal benefits.
3)There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision
There is no clinical basis for the need of medical supervision of marijuana. I have not seen one death in twenty years in the medical field from marijuana use.
With all due respect, I would like to answer "why does anybody wish to use mind- altering substances". The answer is different for anyone that enjoys the benefits of marijuana. I could spend all day writing the benefits a little doobie will do!

Debra you stated "States that have legalized it are getting out of debt." California goes more and more into debt every year and no hope of it getting out of debt in the near future.

"Thinking is it "my own body, ... can do what I want" is foolish thinking."

Foolish thinking sums up all the things you had just written. People like you are only making things worse, legalization is inevitable. All you are doing is spending more money to prolong the prohibition of a plant.

I'm only lead to believe people like Roger, have been wrongfully informed about this cannabis for their entire life. If you actually did some research on the amazing benefits of these cannabinoids, maybe just maybe, you'd have a better understanding of this miracle plant. Until then, unintelligent blabbering such as this should be ignored by all.

Roger -
Your ignorance is pretty infuriating. If you would do a little research into the other side of the argument, you might notice how uniformed and erroneous your opinion is. How about you consider a few thing.
I would have to agree with you about marijuana being completely different than alcoholic beverages. MJ is, by far, the less problematic substance. It's less addictive, less damaging to the body, and (with the whole debacle of the drug war and drug-related crime due to prohibition aside), less damaging to society in terms of public safety. Also, if you really want to get down to the real "gateway drug" problem, take a look at alcohol and not MJ (http://news.ufl.edu/2012/07/10/alcohol-gateway). Pretty much the only mayhem that pot users create is an empty fridge.

Contrary to what you stated, there are more and more studies debunking the argument that MJ has any impact on cognitive function (http://healthland.time.com/2011/07/19/study-marijuana-not-linked-with-long-term-cognitive-impairment). In fact, there are a bunch of studies being done to show compounds found in MJ could help with Alzheimer's. There is even evidence to show that some compounds help fight cancer and the effects treatments (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/06/marijuana-fights-cancer-and-helps-manage-side-effects-researchers-find.html).

Combine those benefits with the boon it could provide the economy and how it could lower crime, and the answer is obvious.

It is none of your business. Who do you think you are to suggest you can regulate my body? In that case if you are over weight I suggest making a law you need to go on a diet because you are affecting "our" health care costs. You are ridiculous if you follow this train of thought. Btw marijuana is only a gateway drug due to the network you involve yourself with to acquire it. If it was legal this would remove the shady drug dealer for the equation, and it would be harder to make the jump to heavier drugs.

Guy, no, it is none of my business, or anybody else's business if you choose to isolate yourself from the rest of society. If you choose to be a part, that is live in and around others, work around others, drive your car on the same roads as others, then it is everybody's business. Yea, yea, ... the same faulty argument has been advanced for many years, "What I do in the privacy of my home is nobody else's business." That is fine, but most do not keep their actions in the privacy of their home. They choose to drive their car, they choose to be employed, often requiring operating equipment, and they choose to socially engage others. The "... in my home" argument goes up in smoke because that is not how people live.

One only needs to read the police blotter to see the number of traffic stops where the driver is found to be possessing MJ, along with partially smoked joints in the car. Also, often when MJ is found, other much harder drugs are part of the cache as well.

Thanks for admitting the gateway drug idea, something that many others choose to ignore, or reject. Any rehab center will reinforce your assessment about gateway drug. Choosing the crowd, the dealer, ... ha, ha, ... you are a funny person!

Roger - I can only assume then that your are in favor of making alcohol, cell phones that allow for texting, make-up, fast food, GPS systems, sleep medication and pain medication illegal, as they all put us at risk when people use them while driving. There are thousands of things that you should not do before or while you are behind the wheel that puts us all at risk, including smoking pot. Using your reasoning, we should make them all illegal on the chance that someone will be stupid enough to drive while putting on their makeup, texting or eating a cheeseburger. Happens every day, though, ban it all, right?

Your reasons against the legalization of marijuana are either outdated, illogical or just plain false. You've asked twice in this thread why it is that people need to use mind altering substances. I've answered twice by pointing out that every culture in the history of man has used substances in nature in order to temporarily escape reality and asked why you think our drug laws can be successful against this desire. Still waiting for your response.

JS, your argument is the same well-worn one used way too often, ... relative to other things. "... it is not as bad ..." or "... not any worse ..." blah, blah, ... and more blah. Sorry, that argument has run its course, never worked, and does not explain or justify MJ to add to the list.

As the the escape, sorry, ... thought no response was required. The obvious response is "why?" What is to escape? Why a desire to escape? If escape is the easy answer for you, why is it so evasive to others? Nobody else shares your explanation.

But, let us take your escape reason for a moment. I've already posed some questions above, but why wouldn't anybody work at the source of the matter, rather than deal with the symptoms? This is not unlike the doctor putting a Band-Aid over a major internal problem, thinking the bandage will fix the problem. Using MJ, or any other mechanism, is a cop out. It is an unwillingness to deal with reality or the substance of the matter. Yes, you can cite history, but that changes nothing. The person wanting to use mind-altering substance to escape will find only short-term relief. And, when the short-term relief gets bland, then it is time to move to something stronger. Continued use of mind-altering substances doesn't dig to the real issue, just is a paste-over. Why are people so unwilling to deal with their problems for real peace and quiet, rather than reliance on Band-Aids?

Roger - I guess there's no more argument with you then. You choose to ignore science and the studies of anthropologists that show that human societies throughout time find a substance in nature to allow them some escape. Just because you personally choose not to use these substances, you are OK with using billions of dollars a year in resources to fight the one substance that fits the bill for our society and causes the least amount of damage because you personally don't feel the need to escape from time to time. Discussion with you is over when you ignore science and insist that your personal belief should trump all evidence. I've seen it before.

Your other argument - that someone may drive while high, so no one should be able to get high? You ignored my question about banning anything that could possibly put others in danger if you get behind the wheel. I guess you're still going with that?

JS, no ignoring of science. I spent years in college studying science, and made a nice living for decades based upon science. Science has flowed through my bloodstream for many years.

Why do others not offer the escape explanation? Why not address the source of the reason for escape, rather than the paste-over? Thinking that MJ is just more answer to a mechanism does nothing to address the problem, rather creates negative outcomes as an second-hand matter. Do you want our society to live on nothing but escape mechanisms? What is wrong with dealing with the matter that creates the apparent need for escape?

Oh yes, the list you cite of other distractions and/or impairments, are all matters that also need personal responsibility. Read the daily police reports, and find that often half, or more, of the entries are related to drunken driving. We have achieved a "ho-hum" position on such irresponsible actions. That goes for texting, cell phone use, and others as well. Many wish not to be called to account themselves, so assume a position that others should not be called to account either. To do so would point a finger back at themselves. The result: chaotic behaviors, more laws that are a knee-jerk reaction in a failed attempt to curb, and a clogged and expensive legal system that everybody pays.

I acknowledge the fact that no one else in this thread on Patch has mentioned the historical facts of recreational drug use in almost all cultures. That doesn't mean it's not something to take into consideration when deciding whether or not to continue a losing drug war. In case you doubt this proven fact because no one on Patch has said it - read David Hillman's " The Chemical Muse: Drug Use and the Roots of Western Civilization" or read this article

http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/prehistoricdrugs.htm

If you have a way of controlling this desire that has been in the human psyche since man has been on this earth, you should let us know. In the real world, I'd just like us to stop using resources for an obviously lost war and tax and regulate a substance that seems to be the lesser of many evils when it comes to drug use.

Personal responsibility for all the driving behaviors we talked about is definitely important. You just can't pick one behavior, driving while stoned, and say the substance used should be illegal, while ignoring the rest. Personal responsibility is needed to prevent people from driving after ingesting any mind altering substance, yet you want the government to ban only pot.

People have been using mind-altering substances since the dawn of time. And will continue to do so regardless of the legality of those substances. Why arbitrarily make them criminals? Why take a multi-billion dollar business and force it into the black market? Doing so inevitably creates organized crime.

Of course, some people have been trying to control and micro-manage the people around them also since the dawn of time. Let's make micro-management illegal!

I bet if William Jefferson Clinton lived in Pennsylvania he would be in favor of legalizing prostitution!

Prostitution should be legal.

Prostitution is legal in NV, Alaska and a few more states. So . . what about all the drugs that our government lets the pharmaceutical companies make and doctors push, lets make them illegal also. They are a whole lot more dangerous than pot. How many mass shooters were high on pot? NONE! They were high on prescription drugs, why don't we arrest the doctors who prescribed them or the makers of those drugs? Oh yea, that's right, the government allows those mind altering drugs. Why. . . big business and government interest groups lining their pockets!

@ Debra Hogan...

Why is 'big pharma' not being prosecuted?
In 2009, over 26,000 Americans were killed by prescription medications.

Deaths caused by marijuana: NOT ONE in recorded history.

Several years ago, I had surgery on my right shoulder. Pain medication was prescribed..."take one capsule every 4 hours."

I took one capsule.
I was down for over 20 hours. When I came to, I felt like I had been hit by a truck. The next time I felt discomfort, I smoked a small amount of marijuana ...pain gone, no after effects.

I threw the pills out.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Prostitution is illegal because it is immoral and harmful to women. Nothing about this plant is immoral or harmful! People are so quick to judge or offer solutions on how to save money and make money in this country when the answer is right in front of us. My prediction is every state is going to follow suit, once the numbers come out of Colorado. Then people can complain about how we should have done this years ago.

Read this FlyingTooLow.

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000145

Must agree. Generating funding by taxing vice is unconscionable.

Yes, Congress needs to cut down on waste, self-indulgence and begin to limit their acceptance of "perks" and voting themselves pay raises all while exhorting to tax payers to bite the bullet of un/under employment, higher taxes, less services, etc. Members need to pay for their coverage, not continue accepting heft pensions. They need to set a new example.

We have greater problems than legitimizing marijuana, like Obamacare's 700 page plan for socialized medicine.

We need to see government waste cut before taxes are raised and a return to highlighting waste in government at all levels on tv/radio.

The first gateway drug is cigarettes/snuff/etc. It is addictive and expensive, especially for those who are in their 60s and have smoked since they were young teens.

Society sets an example, and right now American society is setting one of self-indulgence. Time spent blissed out on alcohol/drugs/marijuana is time spent not raising children who won't need any of the above to face the day.

There's a song out about how Mamma's hooked on liquor, brother's hooked on mary jane, Dad's hooked on Mary down the lane. Point taken.

Today's marijuana is stronger than ever. Has anyone who uses ever stopped to think their brain cells have been fried enough that they just don't see how badly off they are or what the true effect really is.

As a society we need to set expectations of behavior that has good ends, not bad results. Diminished capacity of individuals affects us all one way or another, whether the user sees it or not, whether we see results now or not til 10 years later.

We make laws to be enforced for the common good. They may be broken, but at least we have them and make people think, at least once, before they wreak havoc on themselves or others. Sometimes that's the best we can do.

How about medical use. There have been documented case of hemp oil helping in the fight against certain cancers. There is one case in which the doctors told a father that his son (Who was on a feeding tube) had two weeks to live. The father at the end of his rope began giving his son hemp oil by the feeding tube. 2 weeks later the son was home and with in a month there was no sign of the cancer. However, the father has done jail time because he saved his sons life. There are there such cases out there, but they mustn't be true because the media doesn't cover them. I am not going to go through the history of why marijuana is illegal, but does anyone know the real reason. It's out there do some studying.

"What alcohol cannot claim is the positive medical uses for which marijuana can be used."

Aw, c'mon, Ann Martin, you know Doc always gives ya a swig of likker before he cuts out the bullet!
(grin)
Just sayin'---alcohol does have medical uses, too.

Marijuana was outlawed at the same time as alcohol. It was one big bill. OH BTW people still drank during prohibition!

Actually, Debra, that statement is not correct. It was the Stamp Act of 1937 that outlawed Marijuana, not the Amendment to the Constitution making alcohol illegal. The two events are completely unrelated. That's part of the problem with this whole thing - people are completely misinformed, and make statements based on opinion or things they've "heard" rather than fact. So...no, that's just not true.

Oh please, our state brings in plenty of money to cover those expenses...they just misappropriate the money for sooooo many BS projects/perks/political promises to unions...etc When it comes to taxing something, sooner or later that money will go to nothing it was orginally inteneded for & our great gov't looks for other things to legalize & tax! It's a never ending/no win policy!

Please Cite the Scientific sources for your hysterical Comments. Take your time and please read this Scientific Cite ; FACT Marijuana is less addictive and less harmful than Caffeine, let alone alcohol and Tobacco; (3 Scientific Studies)
BTW, Dr Henningfield is a former NIDA Staffer;.
Addictiveness of Marijuana - ProCon.org.
http://www.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=1492

Are you saying you have some kind of evidence that marijuana use causes autism?

It's funny that you would choose to blame a natural plant which has been used throughout the ages for the increased rates of autism and birth defects in 2013. Can you show the studies that support this hypothesis? How about we look at the more likely causes of these increases - like the additives that are packed into what we call "food" in this country. We worry about putting pot into our bodies but don't think twice about the chemical preservatives that we can't even pronounce that are in the foods we eat everyday.
I get so infuriated at people who preach about the "harmful effects" of marijuana, which are unproven at best, but have no problem with alcohol, tobacco, prescription drugs, and fast food. All of the aforementioned have proven harmful effects on the body but are perfectly legal in this country.
Cigarette packages have a disclaimer telling you that they cause cancer. We see countless commercials for prescription drugs that include laundry lists of potentially serious side effects. Maybe we could cut through all the arguments about marijuana by making it legal, but with a disclaimer on every sale. Hmm, I wonder what that disclaimer might say. Maybe something like: "Warning: This product may make you relaxed and hungry."

Mike, did you notice the dates on those articles at the site below? They're out of date. 1997 and 2003 are decades old and there's been much research since then that contradicts earlier studies.

Mr. Vallas presents a thoughtful and compelling analysis of the situation for which I commend him.

Ralph, good points. Let's not forget about William Randoph Hurst, who ran a publishing company that owned plenty of forests to produce paper. Hemp was a threat to his paper business, and campaigned earnestly for the prohibition of marijuana. Not for any health concern, but for the almighty dollar.

Thank you Mr. Meyer. I knew there was a correlation between hemp and the illegality of marijuana, but could not remember the specific argument.

"In 1916, the US Government predicted that by the 1940's, all paper would come from hemp and that no more trees need to be cut down. Government studies report that 1 acre of hemp equals 4.1 acres of trees."

---Department of Agriculture

Huh...I'll have to check further, but I seem to recall that jails were too full to house mere recreational users. We need to address the problem of those who make so much money on other people's misery: producers, sellers, etc.

Good point also Citizen, our Constitution was written on hemp paper. (The original copy.)

There are many illnesses that marijuana could benefit, Cancer, MS, Parkinson, Glaucoma, RSD, AIDS, etc (to many illnesses to list). If Pennsylvania could get a better system than California in controlling who can actually get a card to smoke marijuana, then I am all for it being legal for patients who truly could benefit from its use.
The system they have in CA, anyone who is willing to pay $200 for a doctor to say they need it is a joke.
If Pennsylvania had a board, that you had to send your medical records to and they alone would make the decision on who can get a card based on Medical Records then I am for legalizing it for patients who truly could benefit from it and have the drug dispensed at a drug store.
I am not for legalizing it like Colorado did to any one to purchase. Just because Colorado made it legal does not mean the Federal Government can step in and put people in jail for growing, selling and smoking pot.
I was just out in CA for a conference and I was shocked at how many POT SHOPS were on every street in the LA area. Seeing signs with BOGO plastered on the front windows is something I don't want to see in PA.

I seize on an important point in your post, Ms Stein-Orowetz, to make one of my own. We are the sickest nation in the world despite consuming the vast majority of the world's dangerous drugs. These drugs treat symptoms rather than cure diseases. Permitting television ads for all of these prescription medications has been a disaster, as it causes the public to demand that their physicians prescribe them, the patient's "knowledge" taking precedence over that of the doctor.

1: 7 year old study

3/4: link not found

last link: Read the whole article, rather than just pick out 1 piece of info that supports your position.

Did you inhale? William Jefferson Clinton also admitted to smoking pot but he didn't inhale!

Funny you left out Mckees Rock...

Tom, that's absolutely wrong/in-correct and a myth perpetuated by people who don't know better. Alcohol has been shown to lead to other harder drugs. Yet, it's perfectly legal and plentiful .

Marijuana has chemical toxins. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7150274.stm

Marijuana must be toxic enough for the users to ingest, if it does not lead to harder drugs.

Wrong Tom, here's the Science. Lie #1 Gateway Drug.
FACT Marijuana is NOT a Gateway Drug. Here's a 12 Yr Univ Study that says so;.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=97496
Media overview; http://www.pitt.edu/~ugr/Hrych2.pdf

Well, it is smoked.

To some it has lead to harder drugs.

Respectfully Tom.....life itself leads to harder things.....and simply trying to codify or legislate that hard fact borders on cowardice. Please know I am not calling you a coward at all......I am simply stating that this is much more than a simple yes or no question....we have become a society that has placed a burden on our law enforcement men and women that they can neither bear or possibly expect to meet any reasonable expectation of success. Drug use, Booze Use. Tobacco Use. Substance abuse.....is a human decision making matter...and there is not one single policeman or policewoman of any intellectual efficacy that would admit that their efforts have made a single dent in anything related to the use of drugs by human beings who for whatever reason...struggle with just being themselves..without a chemical crutch or friend. When a drug becomes a person's friend...it means another human being somewhere down the line...let another human being down. We are all guilty of that crime.

Tom, It needn't be smoked. Vaporizer or edibles reduce all toxicity.

Tom Said; "To some it has lead to harder drugs"
Please cite your scientific source, as I did, please. It appears as though you're just making it up as you go along!

I have a friend who took aspirin on a regular basis........and now he is hooked on viagra. His life is a mess and his wife can't get a minutes rest.

One of my posts has a link, which there is a graph showing marijuana users who went on to using harder drugs. It is only common sense to think this could happen. Also, marijuana is detrimental to your health. I found this on some web sites in a search. I do not think this bill will pass the PA legislature, it has no chance. The Governor is against it, so if it does get to his desk, it will not be signed into law.

Tom, why can't you Cite your sources. I have cited mine. You're just spewing Prohibitionist Propaganda. GIGO.
Again, here's the U of Pitt study. Lie #1 Gateway Drug.
FACT Marijuana is NOT a Gateway Drug. Here's a 12 Yr Univ Study that says so;.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=97496
Media overview; http://www.pitt.edu/~ugr/Hrych2.pdf

Mike, go to the link in my post for my source and read the paragraph and the graph.

Have you ever researched what exactly is in cigarettes AND what chemicals are added to the tobacco? Those chemicals are the same things that are causing most of the diseases that that comes with smoking them! Those same chemicals is what causes you to get addicted to them! Big tobacco companies fight tooth and nail in court to keep the the chemicals in there and won. This was a while back! Big business and government are shaking hands! There is nothing added to pot!

Tom, part of the myth of it leading to harder drugs is actually common sense. Because of the illegal status of marijuana, some people have been exposed to other drugs because they have to deal with drug dealers to obtain their marijuana. Don't you think that its possible that they were around and exposed to harder drugs that they wouldn't have been exposed to if they were able to obtain it (and not anything harder) at a State Store? They would have never even been exposed to anything harder if they would have been able to obtain it legally. It is a myth that it leads to harder drugs. Myth, not fact. An uninformed opinion spouted by people who have no clue.

Bad Form Tom, why won't you Cite your Scientific sources. I have cited mine. You're just spewing Prohibitionist Propaganda. GIGO.
Again, here's the U of Pitt study. Lie #1 Gateway Drug.
FACT Marijuana is NOT a Gateway Drug. Here's a 12 Yr Univ Study that says so;.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=97496
Media overview; http://www.pitt.edu/~ugr/Hrych2.pdf

Here is a paragraph taken from a story:
The arguments for and against marijuana being a gateway drug are both compelling, and regardless of the claims on both sides, evidence can be found to support either position. Whether or not marijuana actually leads people to try harder drugs, isn’t the risk alone enough to discourage you from using it? Why not find healthy, active ways to relax and have a good time instead of going down the destructive road of drugs, wherever it may lead.
and the link:
http://www.hivehealthmedia.com/marijuana-gateway-drug/

Tom, that is NOT a Scientific Cite, it's a story. In any event, the following is from the article. Read the last sentence, closely.
"(Argument: There is no conclusive evidence that marijuana is a “gateway drug.”

Many studies have shown that addicted individuals used alcohol as their first drug of choice and that people who drink alcohol are much more likely to go on to harder drugs. There is often a progression in drug use, but marijuana is not the only drug that leads to it. There has never been any conclusive evidence that it is a gateway drug.)

Mike, since you will not believe whatever I post, then you are nuts.

Tom, I can teach you, but I can't make you learn. You've chosen to Ignore the Scientific Facts I've provided, so live in your blissful Ignorance. We're done, now.

Mike, insulting me will never get you anywhere. You should have the intelligence to recognize that.

Excellent Oren.

Oren - the opening paragraph in your letter debasing John Maher was uncalled for.

Really???? Then you must be too stoned to notice.

Does smoking pot cause sentence fragments?

Does smoking pot affect cognitive skills as demonstrated in your post or your judgment? Sounds like it from the above. Evidently, you felt no need to use spell check or grammar check to make a clearer, more cogent argument.

good points, James. Having said that, i'd like to extend my middle finger to all things Victorian and it's influence .

Bob Dobbs, Ironically Queen Victoria used marijuana! List of British politicians who admit to cannabis use - Wikipedia, the ...
en.wikipedia.org/...

Wow, now...I agree the discussion has been very civilized, but I don't and never will believe legalizing marijuana or prostitution is the way to go. The 10 Commandments and the teaching of the New Testament support what psychology teaches: men and women hurt themselves when they sell their bodies or allow themselves to be used purely for sexual release and without the context of a loving relationship. Friends with benefits short change themselves and the world by settling for the most basic of existences, uninformed by real caring, bonding, sacrifice. Those who manage to build lives together in marriage and face things together know the truth about why virtue is best: faithfulness in marriage brings richer rewards than satisfying a mere urge, one way or another.

I agree !!!

Ditto my response to your earlier post.

Fluffy - yes - vapor form is about the healthiest means of ingestion outside of tinctures taken by mouth and food preparations where it's been dissolved into butter or olive oil, etc . Vapor doesn't scorch the lungs/throat tissue and doesn't stink up the air or bother people around you. Food form of it aka edibles/medibles takes longer to take effect and work but lasts much longer and and is more systemic, hitting every system of the body. (good for people with chronic pain/arthritis/fibromyalgia/epilepsy, etc etc..) Smoking it is the crudest means of ingestion, obviously .

Yes, it can be made into a liquid/tincture. And, brownies made from MJ "Butter" is another way it can be ingested.

@Fluffy...go to MJNA and read about one of the companies in their portfolio called Dixie Elixir and Edibles. It will blow you away!!!!

cont.....Freeing up law enforcement resources allows their man hours to be devoted to other crime. The challenge facing American society is to teach kids that being sober is fun and it is the best way to tackle life and what lies ahead. Human beings like to feel good...and marijuana and booze and dope does make some people feel good. Making a criminal out of a person that is trying to feel good is a totally ineffective approach. Adults who choose to smoke pot after work should be able to do so as long as they put no one else at risk ( e.g. driving) ....The 2 opposing forces in this passion play....the proponents of legal marijuana....and those against it's legalization need to put the truthful cards down on the table. Our society needs to promote personal responsibility more than it needs to be sticking it's snout into our personal choices and behaviors and often doing so with the power of law enforcement. The idea that a bevy of cops can smash into a persons home with a battering ram....trying to find marijuana inside....ought to frighten even the most ardent tee-teetotalers. All drugs...from heroin to marijuana need to be De-criminalized...and the issue dealt with for what it is...a health issue....Because illicit drugs are illegal....there is a false profit motive that drives their production and distribution.

cont... Once that profit motive is removed.....this society can focus on the real issue at hand....trying to instill in our members that it is okay to be boring and sober....and that being stoned or drunk is never a person at their level best.....but putting men and women especially users...in prison is simply uncivilized. Finally...in my world teenagers would hate me as I would absolutely prohibit drug use among school kids who are being educated at tax payer expense. Get caught with reefer in high school in my world....and you will be studying school work like you might never have imagined. I do not want young people using drugs at all. But the key and way to this entire matter must and should take place outside of the law enforcement model....because it is a dismal failure. What does it say about our current and past society that cannot instill the simple notion that being straight (dope wise) is okay and being in complete control of ones wits and senses is always the best way to be? Marijuana is a silly little drug that makes people act silly and smell funny. Being stoned is neither a creative state of mind nor is it particularly fun to watch.....BUT at the same time...it ought not be a crime either.....and we have made it one...and this drug war is a complete and abject waste of time, money...and humanity.

@ jaylew...

Very well said.
Thank you for sharing.

Danny what people know or don't know about marijuana is a side bar conversation. Proponents of marijuana decriminalization are far better served intellectually by admitting that marijuana does affect human physiology....otherwise no one would smoke it or eat it. It is not the pot versus alcohol argument that will ever win the day as that is like you and I arguing that Boxing is better than Mixed Martial Arts since a mans brains only get punched instead kicked and punched. The way to the hearts and minds of the law enforcement modeled citizenry is to sit down at a table and agree that not being drunk and not being stoned is an equally worthy goal.....one where millions of our fellow countrymen fail at every day. I would rejoice with you the day that marijuana is no longer an illicit substance. That day however would be best celebrated discussing how wonderful the human mind and condition can be all by itself....without any chemical assistance or augmentation. You know full well that reefer has the total ability to make some people act stupid...and being in a state of stupidity no matter how harmless the marijuana might seem....is nothing to be particularly gleeful about.

I suggest you read the following Danny Boyd

http://www.drugfreecalifornia.org/PDF/trafficaccidents.pdf

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/09/marijuana-nearly-doubles-risk-of-collisions/

Ed, the first link has no date to gauge the timeliness of the content.

The second supports crash risk.

Yes, the solution to handling life's problems is always to use mind altering drugs or drinks. Yes, get hammered. Then when you awake, your problem is still there. So you must repeat the action until you build a tolerance and need more to get the same effect. That's where the stronger mix of maryjane comes in. Any joint smoker worth his salt will tell you he gets high. If he didn't, he'd think he was given a dud. Wouldn't want to meet this angry dude in a dark alley.

@Sandy....I think I understand your post....but "angry dude in a dark alley".....causes me to wonder why a person must be angry and in a dark alley in order to be fodder for a discussion on the legalization of marijuana. I mean West Side Story was a great Broadway show....but hardly an accurate description of the typical person who makes a decision to smoke weed. If you read my prior posts...I think marijuana tends to make users act silly......excepting of course chemotherapy or other patients who find relief in it's use.....the concept of anger and dark alleys is a construct....perhaps mainly posited by folks who have never received a Colombia Gas or Duquesne Light shut off notice..... we all do live together Sandy....even though that might be a very difficult picture to look at these days.

You're right on. I tend to vote Democratic, but feel similarly about this issue. Same goes for guns - a high percentage of murders occur as a consequence of trade in illegal drugs, so there is a direct relationship between the two. Trying to restrict or highly curtail legal gun ownership would be as effective as laws against not only marijuana, but cocaine and heroin..that is, a complete failure to actually reduce criminal availability and harm while at the same time penalizing peaceful and productive citizens because of arbitrary policy. It's sheer nonsense, yet it never changes. Politicians in our two party system of course don't care and laugh all the way to the bank.

Sounds like everyone is smoking anyway!

Victoria....i have to assume you are being sarcastic.....because I sure hope you are not serious. If you are serious....and feel that people and parcels of air around you are "infecting" you...then Victoria my dear.....you need to seek the services of someone in the psychiatric field. And so lets pretend that you are being serious for just a moment....why would a person who thinks the way you do...even be standing at a bus stop in the first place? That nasty bus...spewing it's diesel smoke and it's unbelievably hot and hideous over heated air conditioner condenser coils over and around and in "your" air space? Victoria......I understand a person's need for clean air and free "space"....but when you come on to this forum and start dissecting entire parcels of the air surrounding you as things that you "own" or have absolute dominion and purview over.....then dear...it is you who have crossed the line. Trust me when i tell you this....that last breath you took was around before the dinosaurs walked the earth.....and it would take a few hundred million more years for any Stoned up dude puffing on a joint to put a dent in the number of oxygen molecules you inhaled during the time it took you to read this. Sorry hon....that's just the way it is....I would hate to pass gas in your house......you might become permanently apoplectic.

Sandy I guess I did not get it...I just have never heard the word "dud" in a marijuana context....."bud" yes....."dud" no. I do agree with your cry for tort reform though....I for one have long since grown weary of medical malpractice attorney commercials..as if every drug company ever foisted upon the earth had a single solitary ulterior motive.....to kill, deform, maim or otherwise genetically alter as many patients as possible. The saddest part of the entire "marijuana" model being discussed here is that the ONLY profession profiting on every end of the war on drugs are attorneys. The prosecuting ones...and the defense ones.....and so although the rule of law in any civilized society requires the use of barristers from time to time....the fact is that attorneys are involved at the front end and back end of nearly everything bad there is. No matter how harmless or harmful that "is" really is. If Sandy Berger from Berger and Green were actually my father....I would have disowned him decades ago. He doesn't even try to disguise what he is up to....

If we were talking about cocaine I would agree with you.

Absolute rubbish. Please argue with facts, Sandy. You have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever. None.

I would simply say that if a policeman cannot determine whether a person is impaired or not...then he or she is not qualified to enforce the peace. It is the arbitrary assignment of numbers and percentages of blood alcohol that makes a mockery of the entire DUI stop to begin with. I know people who after one drink act as if they have become silly putty.....but would certainly pass a blood alcohol test. The problem is that we as a society can't even let policemen make a single judgement call.....and guess why that is greg? You guessed it....attorneys...on the front end and back end... The D.A. says a person is drunk at point oh 8.....the defense attorney then questions the testing equipment calibration.....and the policeman's opinion...the only person who was actually there at the time....the cops opinion is literally moot.

Mike, are you stoned now? Cause if you aren't what's your excuse for your ignorant behavior now?

That's a good one Pappy huppy

Your not stepping over anyone!

Pappy its funny that you think people who smoke weed are stupid or that they cant succeed in life, but i know a man who could step on your neck in the ladder of life. He smokes everyday has his own business and more than likely makes more money in 7 months than you probably do in 3 years, he is also very intelligent . So maybe before you make comments like that maybe you should do some research and get your facts straight.

Frankly, Pappy . . . I think you are the soul-less one. Anyone who looks forward to stepping on someone elses neck can't possibly have a soul. And your life must be pretty damn mundane because you have WAY too much time to spend ranting here!

<<Your life is a souless,selfesh,mudane and I don't feel sorry for you>>

pappy, define "mudane"

Does this sounds like paranoid schizophrenia?

I have worked since 14, raised my child by my self, went to collage (at age 50), carried a 3.97 GPA. graduated with honors and I manage a restaurant. I have smoked pot for 40 years, daily. I still have all my marbles! My child is now grown and in the Army. He has made the statement that I am nicer when I smoke and not so stressed! I have had prescriptions that totally put me out there! But they were legal and addictive! I gave up on the doctors and just burn a joint once a day for relaxation. My blood pressure is now under control, no thanks to doctors pushing the legal drugs! In fact I have not had any ailments or needs to see a doctor for 15 years! I vote YES legalize it. I am now 60 years old and in great health! Thanks to MJ!

pretend for a second that you are absolutely correct in your 1930's Henry Anslinger styled rants above.....and so the thing to do is incarcerate marijuana users? Tell me pappy...how does it feel to live in America...but think like a member of the Taliban? ...even worse...draft such drivel amongst your community friends and neighbors here on the good old Patch? Not in one of my posts today have I commented on anything but the preferential state of mind being one of clarity and drug free condition...but frankly your rhetoric is far more disturbing and reason for pause than anything a hard core junkie might ever jot down in this thread. It's 2013...not 1931....we have a cure for most venereal diseases now....including that pesky syphilis......but there is no cure for close minded people who take glee as you put it...."in stepping on people's necks". That is not a ladder you are climbing then my friend....it is a mere scaffold people like you build to keep from having to touch the very building they are trying to re-model. I have a degree in biochemistry...caffeine can induce many of the very same conditions you cited above.....what's next Mister Taliban? You gonna take on Mrs Folger? Cripes. You have successfully made me sign off this wretched website.....

(JAYLEW) The cure for you Mr. Biochemistry "HA-HA !" BLah Blah ! Take your condesending bullsh2& to the other Pulpit.

Holy cow Pappy, because you simply mention side effects of a drug, and it is a drug, you are now a member of the Talliban. Wow, what does that say about our FDA? Or even the PDR or the Nurse's drug handbook? People, if marijuana is made legal, drug companies will be required to post the possible side effects. You will do well to listen as with any drug. Of course after you suffer the side effects you can always hire yourself a lawyer to get you money to pay for your misery and make him very rich.

Pappy you brought up ADHD......now flip to page 7 hundred of your neck stepping Carrick Quran and see what the most efficacious medication is to mitigate genuine ADHD notably the adult manifestation of ADHD. It's methamphetamine...gosh if you intend to step on marijuana users necks...what pray tell might your Carrick Quran mandate as proper punishment for medicated ADHD patients? Not to mention if the adult patient was a woman who refused to cover her face up with a veil in your presence.....and Sandy if you are unable to determine why some of Pappy's prior comments border on the same mentality that the Taliban uses in their campaigns....then perhaps you should just get back in the kitchen and start frying up pappy some good old goats head soup. He eats first...remember that part... lest you get stepped on somewhere along the line. Pappys neck stepping comment would get him removed from most court rooms as it has no place in an honest discourse about the decriminalization of marijuana. If you choose to align your forum friendships with neck snappers....then be prepared to be treated like a red snapper....and yes...that is a fish comment. The phrase "Live Snappers" always sheds a little candlelight on girls who are attracted to men who like to step on people's necks.

There we go ! No Focus!

Notice the delusional effects here Mike? Brings happiness, able to enhance judgement? Which stoned scientist came up with this conclusion after his "clinical studies"? Why isn't it in the current JAMA report or AMA journals?
Can you quote a respectectable journal?
Try some at least respectable facts:
Marijuana use impairs a person's ability to form new memories and to shift focus. THC also disrupts coordination and balance by binding to receptors in the cerebellum and basal ganglia—parts of the brain that regulate balance, posture, coordination, and reaction time. Therefore, learning, doing complicated tasks, participating in athletics, and driving are also affected.

Marijuana users who have taken large doses of the drug may experience an acute psychosis, which includes hallucinations, delusions, and a loss of the sense of personal identity.

Attention Deficit Disorder, or ADD/ADHD, is a psychological term currently applied to anyone who meets the DSM IV diagnostic criteria for impulsivity, hyperactivity and/or inattention.

Mike is that you? Are you drinking or smoking now? You're spelling has been reduced to the level of a third grader, if even that.

LOL! and "you're" spelling, Sandy K?

Sandy Large doses of MJ makes you go to sleep! And you still know who you are when you wake up! I have partied hardy many a time with my friends and have never experienced Hallucinations, psychosis, delusions or loss of personal identity.! I have NEVER had the any of the symptoms you have mentioned but I have had hangovers from drinking and wondered how I got to where I was when I woke up! Thank God for good pot-head friends that made sure I was okay. Quuit drinking almost 40 years ago and started smoking pot. Best decision I ever made. So may be all of you against it should at least try it before you dish out all that BS!

Read above.

TAX MONEY TAX MONEY TAX MONEY TAX MONEY AND SQUASH THE DUMB ASS WEED DEALERS

Regulation and taxation create much needed revenue.

Legalization would put yucky dealers out of work.

Free up police and judicial resources to use elsewhere.

Keeping it illegal will not stop it from being used.

If properly regulated, it would be no different than any other vice.

Bonus: I don't think the government should have the ability to tell anyone what to do so long as they are not infringing on the rights of others. If I want to smoke weed in my house, why should it bother you?

"Regulation and taxation create much needed revenue."

It's already regulated. What would the revenue fund?

"Legalization would put yucky dealers out of work."

No it wouldn't. Dealers would get better stuff and charge more.

"Free up police and judicial resources to use elsewhere."

I doubt if marijuana really ties up the cops.

"Keeping it illegal will not stop it from being used."

Making it legal will not stop illegal sales.

"If properly regulated, it would be no different than any other vice."

Just what we need, another legalized vice.

"Bonus: I don't think the government should have the ability to tell anyone what to do so long as they are not infringing on the rights of others. If I want to smoke weed in my house, why should it bother you?"

If you want to torture animals in your house should you be allowed? If you smoke dope in your house then get in your car and run down a child, that harms someone.

@ Ed M...

In your response to Yuri G., how did you make the jump from 'smoking dope in my house,' to 'running down a child' in your car??? Stay with the topic...don't embellish. You are fabricating.

Re your comment, "I doubt if marijuana really ties up the cops,"
I was busted in 1981, for a marijuana violation. I stayed 5 years in Federal Prison for that indiscretion. In that era, the fed prison population was 28,000...53% were drug offenders.

Today, the fed prison population has risen to over 218,000. Where do you think law enforcement time is being spent?

Your responses are without merit.

Ed, not a single one of your weak responses have any merit whatsoever. None.

Well CC, they are as strong as Yuri's.

FlyingTooLow,

Smoking marijuana can impair your reaction time. And if your reaction time is impaired and you get behind the wheel of a vehicle there could be severe consequences. That is not a fabrication,

If you spent 5 years in federal prison I'm betting you were busted for dealing which would still be illegal. What is the percentage of prisoners that are in jail for drug related offenses NOW! 1981 was 32 years ago.

You might not like my responses, but that does not make them meritless. I offered legitimate arguments to what Yuri posted.

Ed M,

While I can appreciate your stance on the subject, your "debunking" of my reasons why it should be legalized amounts to not much more than you sticking your fingers and screaming "la-la-la-la."

For instance, between the years 1996 and 2011, there have been 10,769,582 arrests for marijuana possession ( http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Marijuana#Total ). I'm pretty sure that would be considered tying up the abilities of our law enforcement officers in paperwork and court dates.

Making it legal would put a huge damper on illegal sales and bring an end to dealers. You're wrong to think otherwise. Nobody wants to go to set up a meeting with their supplier and make the trip for fear of being arrested for having the gall to buy a dried plant. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I know many, many more people who smoke marijuana than you do and almost assuredly none of them would want to take part in the re-supply process as it is now. However, until we have no other choice, we will continue to do so.

Have a nice day!

@ Ed M...

You fabricated when you moved Yuri's pot smoker from his house and into his car...that was not part of Yuri's statement.

I spent 5 years in Federal Prison for conspiracy to import and distribute 12,000 pounds of marijuana. Was I a dealer? What do you think?

The percentage of Federal Prisoners incarcerated for drug offenses TODAY is 48%.
That equates to over 104,000 souls. And you doubt that this '...really ties up the cops'?

You should really do just the smallest amount of research before posting.

And, I agree with another of Yuri's comments: "If I want to smoke weed in my house, why should it bother you?"

Cancer
Glaucoma
Fibromyalgia
RSD
MS
Parkinson Disease
Depression

There are many illnesses that would benefit if Medical Marijuana was legal in Pennsylvania. If they could actually come up with a way for only people with true illnesses to be able to smoke it then I am for it. But don't want to see people with a hang nail like in California being given a medical card so they can go to a pot shop to purchase.

Ed, your "argument" sounds a whole lot like "I know you are but what am I" to me. And comparing using a substance to a violent act like torturing animals is clutching at straws. Like I said before, nothing you said, not ONE part of your "argument" has any merit whatsoever, none.

FlyingTooLow,

I fabricated nothing. I did nothing more than extend what could happen.

Why shouldn't you be allowed to smoke pot in your house? Because it is illegal. Should you be allowed to kill cats and dogs in your house?

@ Ed M...

Sir, you are probably one of the most unreasonable people I have ever encountered.

I wish you the very best.

Really Yuri???? You think the police are "tied up" arresting criminals? Isn't that their job?

You'd be surprised how many people I know that smoke dope. And that really has nothing to do with whether it should be legal or not. And your reasons for it being legal are exactly compelling. Most are excuses.

No clutching Concerned Citizen.. Both are illegal. Where do you draw the line?

"@ Ed M...

Sir, you are probably one of the most unreasonable people I have ever encountered."

Why?? Because I disagree with you?

You know very little about organized crime, DGA.

I'm sure there are many more than 100+ shown on this poll.

siebent13... That's on of the reasons, why police are so busy everywhere.

Nice language for a 5th grader.

There may be intelligent people on here, but none of the anti-legalization posters have displayed any amount of intelligence or FACT, James. I agree with you that they may be intelligent people, but have you read any of the posts for not legalizing? Be objective and you'll have to admit, the FACTS have all gone the way or pro-legalization; the other posts are uninformed propaganda and opinion.

I would challenge your notions. I have smoked marijuana since I was in college. Graduated with a Bachelor's Degree. Working on Master's. Got a great job. I'm married. Have two kids. Got a house. Pay all my bills. I have all of it, the American dream is mine. And I still smoke weed. I take nothing in the form of government handouts. And there are many more like me. Get over yourself, you sanctimonious tool.

@Pappy huppy...

After reading several of your posts, I think you may be having an adverse reaction to your prescription medications.

You are delusional.
Please, get some counseling.

Yuri and CloudDancer.....the level of venom and anger in Pappy's posts are troublesome. Hopefully his spouse or co-workers give him the wide berth he apparently demands from everyone who counters his own opinions and social mores....for if they do not....he might step on their proverbial necks as he "climbs his ladder". Not one of my posts promotes the notion of being stoned at any time and in one of my posts I clearly indicated how harshly I would address marijuana usage among school aged kids. But I would not blemish any kids future with a criminal record for simply getting high or getting involved with the drug world. All that does is nearly extinguish inner city kids hopes of ever getting out of the hell that we have all to some degree created, ignored or perpetuated. A white kid caught with powder cocaine has an astronomically higher chance of getting off the hook than the black kid caught with crack. I would ask that Pappy stand on the corner of Lincoln Larrimer and implore the black kid to work at McDonalds for 7 bucks an hour instead of slinging crack for 7 hundred bucks a night. I would love to hear Pappy inject his neck snapping ladder climb analogy to such a black kid. The problem is that Pappy is convinced that the jackboot method currently in place in this country regarding drug use and misuse is actually effective...when indeed it is not. Some people find reading police blotters nearly pornographic in effect....I suspect Pappy is one such person.

@ jaylew...

Pappy's comment, "I look forward to your imprisonment..."
Wow...this man harbors a lot of hate. I think he needs a hug.

The nice thing about guys like Pappy huppy is that they eventually become irrelevant as times passes them by. People will always be against certain things, but often if what they are against is supported only by their narrow minded prejudices they will lose yet continue living in delusion.

jaylew, I see your point, and agree mostly, but did you have to express it in such a racist way? As if all inner city kids are black? All cocaine using suburban kids are white? Assuming the race of any poster?

Yuri...I don't consider you a stoner at all.....in fact your situation and life is a perfect example of why most reasonable minds agree that the war on drugs is an abysmal failure. The only thing missing from your ability to totally enjoy your own preferred freedom is that you cannot legally plant a dozen or so reefer plants in your backyard as others do with tomatoes and bean plants. I just can't get Pappys neck snapping comment out of my head.....I don't even use marijuana and yet to think that people that think like that walk 2013 streets is actually creepy. We live in a nation where the fat french fries are fried in has become a legal issue....or the size of a soft drink is now a legal issue. It all borders on utter madness. One can hardly question why people spend so much time trying to "escape the entire mess".

The tide of public opinion and recent elections around the country runs contrary to your belief that it will always stay illegal. And for the record, your responses were not interesting. They were tired and cliched. Sometimes it's fun to feed a troll, such as the case here.

@ Pappy huppy...

It's not illegal in Colorado and Washington.

Question: are you familiar with the concept of 'freedom'?

That is what the BIG question with the prohibition of cannabis.
Is ours a 'free country,' or not?

Oh now you want to meet posters here out on the street and then try to beat them up because they disagree with you? That is the "High T" reaction of a "Low T" patient who rubs Androgens into their armpits every morning because the ability to actually accept getting old with dignity and grace has become lost on them. The desire to snap necks and beat people up is surely not a side effect of marijuana.....and so maybe that is what bothers you so much about the notion of marijuana decriminalization. It would mean that as you walk down the street and look at your fellow men and women...there might be fewer willing participants in your Popeye fist punch world....the only thing you'd have in common then would be that their corn cob pipe would have a different substance burning in it than yours does. Re-read your posts here and look at the spectacle you have allowed yourself to become. Pappy the Popeye man....he's strong to the finish 'cause he smokes his spinach......he's Pappy the Popeye man.

@ sieben13...

No...21 years of age, just like alcohol...

I had much rather see my son and daughter smoke pot than drink alcohol...but, not until they have reached 'their majority'...whatever that means...an age when the consequences of their actions are theirs, alone...the age of 'responsibility'...hopefully...

Absolutely not, Sieben. No one is advocating children using it, just like no one with common sense would advocate children using alcohol.

No....in fact my view is extremely harsh.....as long as a kid is receiving public money to attend school.....that includes all of high school (local school taxes) and all of any public grant or public backed loans to attend any higher education (Pell Grants or PHEA loans)...the student should be warned that positive drugs tests will have a very deleterious consequence.....it won't be a criminal one...but it will be a consequence that will greatly affect their life as a student...or in the case of recalcitrant users....their lives as ex-students. In my opinion all students old enough to engage in drug use must be random drug tested....and parents must consent to that or else their kids do not get to attend that school....and of course I am all for school vouchers to rid the communities of these miserable institutions currently called Public Schools. In fact public schools are actually part of the drug problem right now. But that is a discussion for a different day. Kids need every ounce of their own personal brilliance in order to achieve their level best in academia. 20 somethings in college would NOT like my set of rules regarding drug use.

@ same old story...

MIght as well include mosquitoes...

Kini...

I now burn a bowl in your honor...
Have you googled 'Shoulda Robbed a Bank'?

You would like it.
Hugh Yonn

Read the book...I will send a copy, free...what I wrote is truth...if you go to my face book page, leave a comment...I can find you from there...stay safe and happy...

"Fear not, Grasshopper...we will come back into the light."

Exactly Derek...it really can't be put any better. And again...I do not use drugs because my employer the Federal Government prohibits their use and I would lose my security clearance and so I choose my paycheck over getting loaded. Yes...humans can be massaged into less painful places with money. I choose a good paycheck over firing up a bong.....but that choice is mine to make...it is not yet another governmental behavior modification technique. I choose not to smoke reefer. I do not chastise or belittle those who choose otherwise. Many successful people choose to smoke weed and I salute their success as much as I would expect they respect mine. That's all this really is about....respect. And no college kiddies who are getting public grant money....no you are not quite there yet...so once you are no longer on the public dole in any way....you can do any of the adult things you choose to do...but not one minute prior.

Someone please buy Peter some punctuation...

That is one big run on sentence! Could be the result of smoking too much reefer!

Respectfully....the misery and despair of a drug addled user who winds up expiring while in the throes of that abuse is very very real and very very disheartening....and I apologize if my words hurt you any further. But drug abuse at that level is a mental disorder and condition and when self destruction becomes a persons goal...whether by choice or happenstance.....it is not salient to the topic here. We could also discuss the horrific ripped up human carnage on every major highway in this country but that is not going to ever make the automobile illegal. All drugs...are not All about crime and death. In fact most drugs used by most people....heal. From the simple aspirin to the potent painkiller.....the drug itself is not the problem...it is the decision making capability of the user. As awful as the loss of a drug addled loved one truly is.....the fact is that that loved one suffered from a condition far worse than the drugs themselves...they suffered from a terrible terrible mental disease and all the drugs did was make their journey shorter instead of longer. And that proves my point and many others here...that the use of drugs...licit and illicit...is a medical issue...it is NOT a criminal one. We have made a medical issue a criminal one....and it is harming the entire social fabric.

RPD - not all drugs are about what you say. Some are about health issues - but some ARE about escaping reality. I respectfully remind you that people of many, many cultures have been using drugs for centuries in order to escape reality. Reality can be a scary place and a little vacation can be rehabilitative. Do you think our drug laws have a chance of changing this inherent part of human nature?

We need to identify what drugs can be safely used for this age-old purpose of escaping reality, educate people about them, regulate them, and then allow for the safe use of them. Prohibition has never worked, doesn't work now, and won't work because some will it to.

Congratulations on making the most ignorant, childish, self-agrandizing post of the thread.

You should be very proud...oh wait...your self-image is already overblown....

Ummm I am old.....and have the following comment as my official response to yours....."There is nothing more irritating on this planet than a vegan who by virtue of his or her disdain of Kentucky Fried Chicken thinks that sporting around town stoned while wearing sour smelling hair braids is actually good looking much less sexy". Your obvious lack of respect for those who have lived before you...will someday come back to haunt your post above...and when it does.....do not look for any empathy or sympathy in this place. We have most all long since died and laughed all the way to the grave over your insolent selfish smarmy know it all punk attitude. You are the part of the human animal nobody likes. I have smoked more pot, taken more LSD, eaten more psilocybin mushrooms, ingested more schedule 2 narcotics than you and every member of your shitty crew could imagine...but then I grew up...learned to respect those that respect me and others...and I chose to engage in a career that required being straight. You are so far out of line in the post above that even deleting it yourself cannot undo the damage you have done to your own psyche for posting it. Dumbass.

The Truth,

Ignorant has nothing to do with age. I could pose the opposite about the younger generation but I won't. The bulk of your post is nothing but a bunch of shots at your elders.

<<,The Truth
Also, the younger generation is generally for legalization. It is the older, and more ignorant older generation that has been brainwashed their whole lives into thinking "marijuana bad", all while indulging in fatty foods, tobacco, and alcohol. Those ruin peoples lives, not marijuana. So naturally, when the older generation is old and dying from dementia in a retirement home because they drank themselves to retardation >>>

First of all, your use of the term "retardation" is offensive and also, as used, shows that you have no clue as to its meaning.
Secondly, your ageist comments show your lack of knowledge of history. Maybe you could start learning by googling "Woodstock. " --- the original, of course, 1969.

The Truth- FYI... I am for legalizing it and I am old, indulge in fatty foods, and smoke. (I don't drink though) I am not that fat either and a registered Democrat. So, your theory stinks. From your post it seems like you might already have some dementia setting in.

I have yet to see any articulate posts against legalization. At least not a single one with any facts.

I don't live in your neighborhood. Go back under your rock!

Well CC, that could be said about those posting for legalization as well.

Thank you, NE12Ukid. No, some participants here are not adults. They reveal a great deal about themselves when they are unable to express themselves without the use of profanity and name-calling. This, I regret to say, is one of the downsides to allowing anonymous posts. Profanity is a violation of the Terms of Use and these posts are removed when Patch editors become aware of them. I regret that they are posted before being screened. Individuals who would pollute a family forum like this are worthy of no response or engagement. Thank you for your decency.

Thanks, Patch, The most onerous appear to have been zapped. Muchas gracias.

You find one of my posts where I indicate in any way that marijuana should NOT be decriminalized. Because there are none that means you have not calmed down from your Adderal today for a sufficient period of time to even read this thread in it's entirety.....for if you had.....you would now suddenly realize how impulsive and ricochet rabbit you really come across. So go find one single post on this thread where I decry or diminish the use of reefer by anyone...like I said earlier......you are a dumbass...and have now shown that clearly not once...but twice. In baseball....a two strike count means the batter needs to change the approach to the at bat.....but given your propensity for impulsive egocentric and left field proselytizing....I would wager that you indeed are going to strike out....again.

And you have yet to pose a good argument for legalization, The Truth.

The Truth, you couldn't of said it better.

Oh....so now you are on the topic of coarse language and other folks education levels? Glad to see that you were totally unable to find a single post here where I implied in any way that reefer should not be decriminalized. And because you are not mature enough to admit that you are and were wrong inferring that I was not on the same side of this entire reefer decriminalization conversation as you posited...then that means you're still a dumbass.....and that is not name calling offered up by an uneducated person....that is me basically speaking with a laptop keyboard what could best be described by your own screen name...The Truth.

Jaylew ... 60 ish year old man . probably a only child. His parents told him he's the best at everything . Probably joined the army or armed services ,do to lack of confidence. probably a womanizer or abuser. Children never come to see him. This is how the man gets his rocks off . Flamboyant use of vocabulary ,"I'm : uninspired" On all the posts hes been on ,has been derogatory. I think this has to be said Mr. Healy

pappy,
Can't you make your own point, or did you think that this forum was here only for you to fling personal insults at others?
I believe you have stated your opinion, I happen to disagree with you, but I have not stooped to calling you names, using foul language as you and your ilk have done in previous posts.
History will tell which opinion prevails.
Your insults will only paint a poor picture of you as a person.

At least you are back on the topic...and I seriously like your alliteration in the first sentence. It rolls perfectly and is the kind of flamboyant lexical technique that drives Pappy bonkers but even he still finds triggering a Google word search from time to time enjoying. ..I mean after all....this is what it is....an on-line version of a morning coffee shop visit amongst people with apparently not so busy lives. And that's a good healthy diversion from reality even though tempers flare as opinions roll. Ed M challenged the conversation earlier as having an absence of fact driven reason(s) for legalization. I prefer decriminalization as the end state. I don't like posting links to other websites as it is often used as a replacement for ones own opining.....and my opinion is that all substances currently found on the varying possession schedules of control and illegality should be removed from the criminal system completely. The profit motive needs excised from the equation entirely. Drug cartels are in existence solely because of profit. If a person commits a crime while high the crime is not being high...but the other crime committed. People will still be subject to proper civilized behaviors and norms. We have put the enforcement of nonsensical laws above the genuine issue at hand. A person who murders another while on crack....is still a murderer....the crack part is always added for extra news flair and drama...often diminishing the victims tragedy.

<<<The Truth
:Pappy paints a plausible picture of Jaylew.
>>>

No, pappy's words only paint a clear picture of himself, as do anyone's.

I think "The Truth" and "Pappy huppy" are the same person.

"And time will tell whose opinion is right"

Opinion is not about right or wrong. Everyone has opinions.

Ed M is right.

Everyone does have opinions. Even homeless people, cowboys, and embryos. Unfortunately, most other people's opinions are stupid. This is another good argument for the legalization of marijuana. Other people are stupid and marijuana can make their stupid opinions seem either funny or frivolous.

You are too funny Yuri! Yeah the answer is to smoke pot so everything is funny. Great attitude! Let me know how far that gets you!

Ed,

As indicated before, it has gotten me this far in life and I am living comfortably.

And you are acting as if no successful person has ever used the dried buds of this wonder plant. If it's good enough for the likes of President George W. Bush, Morgan Freeman and Bill beeping Murray, it is good enough for you and me.

Never said that Yuri. I did better than my share in my younger days. But I grew up.

"TWO thumbs UP !!! "

Robert agree with you, people that have illness should be able to smoke pot

concerned guy - your attitude is out of touch and dangerous to american society . The rehab centers are making a killing of bogus rehab for weed amongst other things. It's a scam and needs to be stopped. I.E. Gateway rehab and every other place like it . No one here I don't think is suggesting the promotion of kids/teens ingesting it but for adults, it's entirely their own business whether you like it or not. Our founding fathers used it for relaxation and many other purposes and obviously, a few presidents and politicians more recently have admitted to enjoying it if even for a time. So, uphold THIS and DON'T TREAD ON ME, Victorian SCUM .

@ concernenedamerican...

You are out of touch with reality.
Please, just the smallest amount of research will bring you 'into the light.'

It is not your place to regulate other people's lives.
With all of the rhetoric surrounding the marijuana debate, the concept most overlooked:

Freedom of the individual.

“…over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign”.”
— from the essay On Liberty by John Stuart Mill

What happened to, "This is a FREE country"?

That is what we have been telling the rest of the world for decades.
Please, let us live up to it.

Lead by example.

To a truly concerned American,

I must agree. It is pretty much common knowledge that our rehab centers are overflowing with stoners and potheads. This one time I tried to smoke a pot and then my wife then left me for another woman. She also sold the kids to a nice Polish family because second hand smoke affected her in negative ways.

In the words of a great American hero, #420no.

I am much more concerned with police departments dressed up in SWAT body armor and toting tactical weapons and rams to bash open the front doors of neighborhood homes. Do I understand why those police conduct those incredibly dangerous and Gestapo style raids? Yes I do...it is because illicit drug sales generate huge sums of money..and money means violence and gunplay. Do I know why huge sums of money are generated? Yes I do...because criminalizing substances that people use to get high drives the price up. The war on drugs is a futile one and has only created an entire economy all by itself.....from the entire law enforcement crew....the entire jurisprudence system....and all the other players who benefit from the continued abject failure to understand one simple single notion. Once the profit motive is removed from the picture....the use and abuse of substances can be dealt with in the fashion that it should have been all along. You can be a concerned American to be sure....and so can proponents of the decriminalization model(s). Not wanting police...local or otherwise... dressed up like military soldiers and bashing in doors is a great way to show genuine patriotism. The challenge on your end is to discuss convincingly why you think a generally sober lifestyle is a better option than the alternative. Making an illicit substance user or abuser a criminal simply because one prefers a more sober approach is a waste of time and an exercise that only makes things worse.

I see ne12ukid has a new name LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo only in a brain that is smaller in the size of a pea does one have so many persons living there. Shame that they don't have friends, family and real people to associate with.

And by the way... if PA were to legalize marijuana, the Federal government would spit in the eye of State's rights and continue to prosecute.

Melinda , If everyone had a gun, it would sure take a big bite out of the crime rate. Gun ownership should be required of all good citizens.
BUT I agree that legalizing dope is wrong, it just leads to more problems in spite of all of the "studies" posted above.
AND if it doesn't lead to crime (which it does) then why does "JOSEPH" say above that where it was decriminalized there was a decrease in crime.
Joseph, sounds like you have liberalitis- talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Melinda - God made cannabis/weed, god did not make guns. Think about that if you're going to drop the g-word into the discussion ... "I have given you every fruit bearing seed to use as you need."

Arcole, dope is not pot. Dope is morphine, lsd, oxycotin, and other drugs, not pot. You are a clueless person.
Pot is safer to smoke then booze and I don't do either but I read the papers, watch the news and even do research on the internet.

Melinda Montalbano your statement is way out there. I hope they never give you a gun as you will be shooting yourself in the foot with it.

I am sure that was said in total sarcasm...but the problem is that I cannot find any commenter here who is promoting the use of marijuana or drugs by kids. I have in fact made several comments about my personal thought on the consequences that should be put upon kids who choose to use marijuana. But my position on kids using it is not steeped in criminality.....the last thing any kid needs is a criminal record for doing adult things. Associating guns into this thread is also a non-sequitur.....the gun aspect of marijuana to the extent there is one....is because of it's value as a substance of illegality. Where there is money...there are guns...in both the criminal world...and in the legal one....banks or large successful busy grocery stores almost always have a person with a gun very close by.

Bob, So when someone says they were smoking dope they were smoking heroin or opiates????????? You are the dope!!

Dope - any narcotic or narcoticlike drug taken to induce euphoria or satisfy addiction.
any illicit drug.

Marijuana fits the definition Bob.

"The end of prohibition led to a steep decrease of alcohol use among minors. The same thing would happen with the legalization and regulation of marijuana, as it would actually be harder for minors to get access to marijuana."

Maybe but there are no stats or facts to back this up.

Great post John Q.

Ed if you go and do a search you can find facts out there.

I have searched cc. And this search has yielded little in the way of facts.

Ed here is a article that Bob Balmer posted. http://libertycrier.com/government/top-10-cannabis-studies-the-government-wished-it-had-never-funded/?utm_source=scribol.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=scribol.com

here is an article that I posted. There are thousands of articles out there but not sure what key words your using while you do your searches.

The Liberty Crier???? That's all you got????

Bob it is a good article and yes the war on drugs is a losing battle. I just seen on the news today about bath salts (something you smoke like pot, i'm assuming), that is killing kids and them needing heart/lung transplants). What I think needs to be done is more education on drugs and not only in school. Parents have to step in and talk to children about them and if they suspect they are doing them, you can buy a drug test at the WalGreens, CVS, or any drug store and have them tested. Then get counseling for your child if they are on them. I am glad I have raised 5 children that none of them did, and glad they don't drink either.

Placing people in jail is not the answer as they get out of jail and do the same thing.

Bob read your article also and it is true what they are saying there. It is a shame about all the money that is wasted on fighting drugs. They could of used that money on education, roads, bridges.

if ne12ukid only had a brain

Been following this story cause of the amount of comments it has generated. Honestly could have cared less if pot was legal or not until reading the comments of the peolpe against it becoming legal. Most of them were pretty...strange. I can now say I favor pot being legal in PA.

Thanks for proving my point.

Mike I certainly do not disagree with the sentiment of your premise regarding the skinny versus heavy analogy. I have to point out an interesting side bar to that however from a political standpoint it sure is odd that the current administration in the White House does nothing but try to interfere with people's personal choice-making in the food category....and someday soon they might actually incorporate a person's food choices or obesity status into a health insurance eligibility matter. So we live in a strange set of dynamics in terms of our own choice making....Republican administrations usually are big on drug law enforcement and Democratic administrations of late are big on Food Choice Enforcement. As a person who finds himself somewhere in the middle....I am really conflicted over the polarity of it all... I like guns....I like Fried Chicken...I want adults to be able to choose their own food or mechanisms of safe escape or therapy....and here we all are....still unable to agree on gun possession....the right to stuff French Fries down our gullets... and marijuana usage. The same folks who love Obama...will tend to have relaxed attitudes towards marijuana...but then turn right around and shriek about the notion of people making the same personal choice regarding the type and amount of food they intake. George Bush voters....might tend to NOT want relaxation of drug laws...but do stand up for gun rights and yes even a person's choice to eat or not. It's odd indeed.

Mike have to agree with you on that one. What kills me is when you see someone fat ordering enough food for 3 people then getting a diet coke with it. HELLO, do you think the diet coke is actually going to make up for how much food your eating.

yeylew, i am not a democrat and i am all for legalizing medical marijuana. This isn't a case of Democrats vs Republicans. It is about people rights to smoke pot, I have read many articles on medical marijuana for illnesses such as cancer, MS, Parkinson, Glaucoma, Fibromyalgia and other illnesses. These people who have these illnesses take pills then have to take other pills for the side effects of these medications.
I have also read articles that smoking pot is less dangerous then drinking and getting behind the wheel of a car. How many accidents happen because someone smoked a joint.
"A new study suggests that legalizing medical marijuana reduces traffic fatalities. The authors noted that legalizing marijuana reduces alcohol consumption, and people are more wary of driving high than drunk. Which drug is actually more dangerous on the road?" http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2011/11/does_marijuana_make_you_a_more_dangerous_driver_than_alcohol_.html

Very good article to read about alcohol vs marijuana and being behind the wheel of a vehicle.

jaylew - The Obama administration has passed no laws telling you what you can and can't shove into your mouth. What they are trying to do is educate people about the consequences of a bad diet and what foods constitute a good diet. Maybe you're against learning something - I don't know what your personal issue with the president and first lady is. Michelle Obama has chosen childhood obesity as her cause. Every first lady has a cause that they work on, hers is certainly an important one - but they are not going to send the food police to your door when you scarf down that sixth donut of the morning.

It's odd indeed that you make this a democrat vs. republican thing, when it's obvious from the posts that there are many people who line up on the right when posting here that are for legalization. This may be the first time I agree with cc about anything.

@JS you know...is it possible for you Obama acolytes to read another persons comment and then NOT inject your own words into it? Just exactly where in my post above did I say that the Obama administration has passed laws telling other people what to eat? I suggested the left like to meddle in dietary choices...I did not say laws were passed by Obama... and you are not going to start some snarky response as if I did say it. You know damn well what I am talking about....NEW YORK CITY is the poster child for left leaning meddling into diet or food enforcement....Michelle Obama has no business telling soldiers what to eat while they are protecting her big behind's right to get bigger while she eats whatever she wants....she is a meddler...and her suggested soldier diet was received by the military with the "mind your own business first lady" that it deserved. My post is not so complicated that you simply can't acknowledge that there is a difference between what the 2 parties tend to prop up as "what constitutes a persons choice to make in their own lives" Cripes your post is a complete waste of your time and mine...and as far as CC he and I agree on nearly everything and if you would read his post and mine you would see that we are both NOT Democrats...and yet we both as NOT Democrats agree that reefer should be legalized.....do you need new glasses? or did the mere mention of Obama get your dander all in whirlwind tizzy? For cripes sake seriously....slow down and read.

jawlew, first of all, Soldiers do not protect the first lady, the Secret Service does. The obama administration now has cut out Breakfast for our soldiers that are servicing in war zones.

Second jawlew, you are the one that brought up Democrat and Republican, as no one else did. And from what you wrote it seems as you are making it one against the other, which isn't the case.
Third jawlew, I am not a male, my husband passed away from cancer when i had 5 small children at home from the age of 9 months to 12. When we found out he had cancer they gave him 6 months to live and those months of living were in agony for him as they didn't back then give him enough pain medications to control the pain and watching him in agony was horrible. Back then I wish we knew about marijuana and the effects that it has on controlling pain as I would of found a way to purchase it for him to smoke as it is a wonder drug for people in chronic pain.

I am for medical marijuana for people who truly have illness and can prove this with Doctors backing them, and not like out in California that if you have a hang nail you can get a card to smoke medical marijuana.

Why bring up obama and food when this article has nothing to do with peoples weight and what the government is telling people what to eat?????

jaylew says . You know da** well what I am talking about....NEW YORK CITY is the poster child for left leaning meddling into diet or food enforcement....>>>>

You mean NYC where the mayor is a former REPUBLICAN, now calls himself an independent, right? How's that the fault of any DEMOCRAT?

jaylew you are the one that is pitting Democrats against Republicans, not anyone else.

You are the one who brought Obama, Democrats, Republicans and right-left stereotypes into what had been a pretty on-topic discussion. My response was simply to that and to the lie about the administration wanting to control our diets. Go ahead and deny you said it but in your post you wrote - "Democratic administrations of late are big on Food Choice Enforcement." There is no Food Choice Enforcement without Food Choice Laws. The Obama administration has enacted none. If there are attempts, as you insist by the phrase "it is only a matter time" to control obesity using health insurance, be assured that this was starting to happen even before Obamacare, as many employers and private insurers found that they can save money by controlling how unhealthy the people they insure are. This is not some government plot, just good business practices by private insurance companies who still control the majority of health care decisions and practices.

I tend to defend Obama on this site a lot. I don't consider myself an Obama "acolyte" as you refer to me. We can have a long discussion on the many problems I have with Obama and his policies. However, we are talking about legalization of marijuana in PA in this thread, at lease we were until you blew it up into a whole political thing. I defend Obama when I see exaggerations and outright lies about what he has done. He is a flawed president, but it pisses me off to see stereotyping and parroting of talking points on stuff he hasn't done.

cc....why are you addressing me and discussing michelle obama and soldiers? I can't go back and forth with you about something I never brought up. WTF? and now that you cant understand my one simple point above let me explain it all over again. God this is like talking to drunken stumps sometimes. My point was not about republicans or democrats at all.....it was much much simpler and it is disappointing that it has to be explained multiple times....the point was about personal freedom of choice....and that D's and R's are both capable of agreeing with the concept of freedom of personal choice...except they can never agree on what should be included in those freedoms....come on people...that is not a discussion of democrats or republicans at all....it was as i clearly stated a SIDE BAR issue that I thought was interesting...if it so complicated that you can't work your ways through it...I will delete the entire string of comments just to make you and JS feel better....but you are on your own with bringing up soldiers and Michelle Obama in a comment directed to me...I have no idea what you are talking about there. Is this a simple neighborhood web forum or the Allegheny County version of the Twilight Zone...I am beginning to wonder.

The pentagon does not need Michelle Obama as their spokesperson for soliders dietary issues....I work in the Federal Building downtown.....there are a lot of soldiers that work there too....you come down to the federal building and tell the soldiers in all three branches that work there...that Michelle's "Eat more Vegetables" rant a number of months ago was not really from her...but from their Pentagon generals and admirals...they will each and every one laugh in your face over how stupid a statement that is. You don't blather and bray to a soldier in the field about their vegetable intake. YOU can go ahead try it...but you will get booed right off the stage. Again...another obvious point...that for some reason you cloud up and enter a foghorn leghorn state trying to defend. It is really sad....especially since you accuse me of living in a dreamed up soldiers response... I freaking work with soldiers everyday and i was one during Vietnam......and you are simply wrong....soldiers in Afghanistan and elsewhere in harms way literally laughed their proverbial heads off over Ms Obama's screeching about vegetables. Your allegiance to her is bordering on being abjectly pitiful.

jewlew you need to go and read everything you say. You brought up that soldiers protect the first lady
jaylew
6:58 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013 ".Michelle Obama has no business telling soldiers what to eat while they are protecting her big behind's right to get bigger while she eats whatever she wants....she is a meddler...and her suggested soldier diet was received by the military with the "mind your own business first lady" that it deserved." Your the one that post things and then you keep on denying that you do.
Did you forget to take your med's as you say one thing and in the next post you deny saying it. You need to go back and read all you wrote.

Then let's legalize all illegal drugs! Heroin and cocaine for all!

Ed M - I can't grow either one of those in this area. Did you read what I wrote or did you just start typing?

The "all or none" approach is absurd and is actually hurting all sides of the issue.

Sure you can Mike! Have you ever tried?

You sure do use a lot of words to say virtually nothing.

jalew - "@NEUKid...since you have elected yourself as the self appointed unofficial moderator of this thread and every other one on the patch....always trying to control others word choice and intentions and attitudes"

You got this part so right.

The rest of your delusional rants speak for themselves, I could have gone on all night.

jaylew is way out in left field, says one thing then denies it. Just trying to figure out if she has Alzheimer or Dementia as she is way out in left field

That's the way it goes sometimes JS! Post it then deny you ever posted it! It was my evil twin!

margaret - if the pain/discomfort is bad enough, do what you have to do. big-pharma drugs like vicodin/percocet/oxycontin/etc etc are FAR more addicting than cannabis will ever be. That's a fact. That's a fact that big pharma and the d.e.a. would like to go away and never be known. (not to mention the acetaminophen in Vicodin/Percocet/etc. - it kills your liver the same way or worse that drinking shots of whiskey every day does . Acetaminopen is aka Tylenol for those who don't know. A smart doctor will give you his or her blessing to use cannabis and probably also convey that they're away it's perfect / ideal medicine for pain and about 100 other complications/symptoms . They can't legally Rx it , for now in PA. but they will be, eventually , guaranteed . They're careful on how they speak of it to patients. There are people that refuse to wait for old-boy dinosaur Pennsylvania state government to get with the times and so they're moving to the states where medical cannabis is already legal and legit. Colorado, California and many others, so far .

Margaret...it pains me to read your story of living in pain yourself....in the year 2013....where there is so much medical and anecdotal evidence of marijuana genuinely helping people in any number of bad places....be it chemotherapy, chronic unrelenting physical pain...or yes....even those whose last nerves are worked because of a bad day at work or a bad day in the marriage or relationship barn. As an adult and citizen of this country....a country that was founded on the concept of independence and freedom from the oft firm, unrelenting and misplaced forced dominion of others.......the very fact that you cannot obtain a supply of good clean unadulterated legal marijuana to mitigate your own pain.....that fact is more stupefying than 10 simultaneous joints of the best weed in the world. It is more painful than trying to get ones point across to ones own neighbors in this town hall themed forum. Any slight misstep or failure along the way to that end might result in accusations of dementia or worse the very real horror of Alzheimer's disease.....as if that were a condition that anyone either deserved or earned based on the opining of any number of Evelyn Wood Speed Reading dropouts or those who minimally met the most minimum of standards there of. Someday Margaret....you will find a way and the legal means to quash your pain the best you can...and if that means using marijuana....then go for it girl.

You are so right about jaylew about the anti-tussive effect and the anti-diarrheal effect. I also have IBS so some Percocet would help me in more ways than one.

Bob - I so agree with you on this, My friend that is stage 2 ovarian cancer and is in the process of chemo treatments is prescribed time release 60 mg of morphine that she takes twice a day. She says it only relieves about 40 percent of the pain. When she smokes pot (illegally), she says her pain level is next to nothing and she actually eats while she is smoking pot. Her weight has dropped from 160 down to 100 lbs since she has gone though chemo and on her second round of it. She should be able to get a prescription to purchase marijuana legally as it has been proven that this is one of the best grown pain medications out there.

How in the world did you get that name?

The closest I have ever seen marijuana come to harming anyone was during an air drop. We brought in 1100 pounds from Jamaica and dropped it in a peanut field in middle Georgia. The bales were dropped from a small plane at 125 feet altitude. One of the bales, about 80 pounds, missed my compadre by only a few feet... but it surely messed up his truck.

You can read about it in: Shoulda Robbed a Bank

That is my contribution to helping point out just how ludicrous our pot laws truly are.

What has the First Lady FORCED you to eat today?

if...if...if....
WHEN has the First Lady forced you to eat or to feed your child a particular food?

Sorry, Richard stein, ... the same well-worn argument of "less than ...." is a failed one. You need to try another path to justify these behaviors.

And, the tax money argument is also a failed one. MJ can be grown by nearly anybody, can be supplied on the black market by nearly anybody. MJ farms, in-house growers, and basement setups prove this to be true. Why would anybody pay taxes on something when they can buy it freely on the black market? Remember, the simplicity of MJ growing and supply is much different than the other drugs and mind-altering substance always mentioned in the MJ discussions. Just look at Colorado, the state who passed laws for selling and taxing. After attempting to develop laws and procedures for taxing, they gave up and went home.

No hypocrisy here, Richard. Nobody suggested that use of other mind-altering substances was not detrimental to the ability to operate machinery. Why do you think that many businesses include drug testing for their employees?

As usual, no reasons are provided here for why the use of mind-altering substances. Try the justification from the other side of the glass. We are not discussing medical issues here, rather recreational.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051201/marijuana-raises-risk-of-fatal-car-crash
Marijuana Raises Risk of Fatal Car Crash
French Study Shows Pot Smokers More Likely to Be Responsible for Deadly Accident
People who drive after using marijuana are nearly twice as likely to be involved in a fatal car crash.

French researchers studied all drivers involved in fatal car crashes over a two-year period and found 7% tested positive for marijuana, including nearly 3% who tested positive for a combination of marijuana and alcohol.

Although marijuana's share of fatal crashes is much lower than those attributed to alcohol, researchers say the results show that marijuana use, even in low doses, significantly increases the risk of fatal car accidents.

No one is saying driving while stoned should be legalized. What's the point of your post cc?

Roger - you seem to be a smart guy. Therefore, you should know that every society in the history of mankind has had a desire to escape the realities of their existence, and have always found the means of doing it in nature. Why do you think that the US drug policy is going to be able to eliminate this innate desire? They certainly have a bad track record thus far. While you may not feel the need to escape, the majority of those in our society have this hard wired into us.

Here's one study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1174878/

What we should be talking about is how to allow people to indulge this desire in the safest possible way. Marijuana seems to fit that bill.

I can not believe you said that smoking pot is more healthy than smoking Cigs, in case you don't know they are both bad for your body can you say common sense? Hey Richard I sure hope you don't become a doctor when you Grow Up, you will be telling people its heathy to smoke dope. WOW!!

Jim,
He said it's healthier than cigars and cigarettes, which it is. Could you provide links to facts to back up your "common sense" comment? I can't find anything that says marijuana is harmful, just causes giddiness and hunger.
Please read http://theweek.com/article/index/236671/is-marijuana-bad-for-you

Oh i don't think anyone who smokes/uses cannabis is going to be at all tempted to start smoking cigarettes. it's a whole other thing and not pleasurable for most people. no health benefit . all lung-cancer/heart disease risk and that's it . in fact, fewer people will smoke cigarettes when cannabis is legal in PA. guarantee .

Do you have statistics for those statements, Bob, or is that how you ingest pot?

same old story - your brain is wacked .

the kid in mt lebanon only had said he consumed it, earlier that day and that he wasn't 'high'. it's unfortunate that the woman was killed but I believe that was more of a case of a novice/new driver not paying attention. weed smoking or not .

same old - you surely have drunk the right-wing scare-mongering prohibitionist kool-aid for damned sure .

Just ask Bob D. he has all the answers. I bet you even called that gay Basketball player and congratulated him on coming out just like are President did. You and the Pres should be both be drug tested.

That's how it is, Ed. Get used to it . It's scientific fact .

Scientific fact! Well then that ends it! Doobies for everyone! Pot is not harmful! Bob Dobbs said it's scientific fact!

Wait a second Ed M, aren’t you the same person who stated as “fact” that allowing same-sex marriage would allow fathers and sons/mothers and daughters/sisters/brothers to marry all without a shred of proof? Now, you seem to be mocking others for presenting “facts” with which you don’t agree? You are a prime example of what’s great about the forums here on the Patch!

"I now have absolute proof that smoking even one marijuana cigarette is equal in brain damage to being on Bikini Island during an H-bomb blast."
---Ronald Reagan

Another sage has spoken.

No Outraged I never claimed those were facts . Especially scientific facts!

@Ed M – Here’s exactly what you said: “Marriage should be between a man and woman. If this is changed to allow for same-sex marriage, then two sisters could marry, a son and father could marry, two non-gay best friend females could marry.” You then used the Bible to support your position. When someone challenged this you stated: “The Bible is not a myth. It's fact.” Later on, you decided to bring abortion into a discussion about marriage. You called abortion murder, when someone else challenged this assertion you stated: “Let's see - you kill a human with a heartbeat. That's murder. No opinion. FACT!”

As you can see Ed M, you present many things as “facts.”

But you’re missing the larger point here. The larger point is that you’re a hypocrite. You spout off what you believe to be “facts” to support your world view and yet have the audacity to condemn others for doing the same. We all could be sickened by your mendacity, but I choose to find you comical.

Yup Outraged, I presented one thing, not many, as fact - Abortion is murder.

So, go back to your doobie and your view of reality. I'm betting the more you smoke pot the crispier you will get.

@Ed – I see that reading comprehension is not your strong suit. It also appears you’re lacking in the memory department – a sign of sustained marijuana use?

You unequivocally stated that “The Bible is not a myth. It’s fact” and “Let's see - you kill a human with a heartbeat. That's murder. No opinion. FACT!” You also presented as fact that legalizing same-sex marriage will legalize marriage between immediate family members. Those ARE the facts Jack.

But I see you would rather ignore the facts and call names. A good question is why? It’s because you’re bereft of any cogent argument to support your premise. Another reason is that you were caught in your hypocrisy and you choose to lie and deflect rather than admit and change. But alas, there is no need to repeat your dalliances ad nauseam as we lose track of the larger issue.

Ed, you’re a terribly unhappy person who seeks to destroy what you cannot or will not understand. You either delude yourself with or completely make up “facts” to support your positions for the sole purpose of disenfranchising others. May God have mercy on your tortured soul.

Yup the Bible is fact and abortion is murder. I stand corrected. I presented my opinion about marriage if same sex marriage is legalized.

Call names??? What name did I call you Outraged?

I don't lie, sir. As stated above, I was incorrect in my last post.

I also don't partake in weed.

@ Bob Dobbs...

"take that,...you bird-brain..."

I haven't heard anyone called that in at least 40 years.

A million thanks for the memories, Sir...excellent!

Yup a seven year old study says it all! NOT!