So true and so sad that people believed the lies. 4 years from now, gas will be peaking at 8 a gallon, no job and 3/4 of Americans will be without jobs.

agree with proud american. living in a country where people despise the rich...people who have worked hard to get where they are, when people used to look up to them and strive to be them. now, we have more and more people living off of the government: SSDI, welfare, unemployment, medicaid, foodstamps. SSDI is so abused right now. young people who haven't put anything into the system, living on it for years. still no drug testing for welfare, SSDI, etc.... funny, just about everyone i heard interviewed...when asked why they were voting for obama.. could not give one good reason; not one clear, concise answer. just, "i like his policies." yeah? well what are his policies???? should have asked that.. bet they would have no answer. everyone i spoke with were very uneducated on the issues! blindly voting.....

Amos and CC... no one could say it better.

I just don't understand how this is acceptable for the people who voted for him. But that's ok, because the world will end next month and this is why.

Let's face it . . . the minorities came out in the masses and voted so they wouldn't lose all their "entitlements". No wonder our country has lost all respect from around the world.

I guess the white male/females will be the minority now - if they can find jobs! All the blacks will have health care and be on the soup lines. No one gives a rats _ _ _! Wake up people, you voted for a man the wouldn't show his birth certificate.

I don't have time to pick apart the many weak arguments given in this paragraph, so I'll just touch on one quickly: you can't blame the president for high oil prices. That is beyond his control. http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/409261/february-28-2012/rising-oil-prices

The world is going to end? Seriously? Come on! The only way things are going to change is if both parties work together. I know that's most likely not going to happen. However, I have been keeping a close eye on some of the comments on here and it makes me absolutely disgusted. Seriously, the election is over, whatever party you voted for, get over it.

agree

yes it is - against the USA for sure

Norman Thomas Quote

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Totally disagree. It is FOR the USA, but not for the USA you would like to live in. It is for the MODERN, TOLERANT and NON-OBSTRUCTIVE USA. Sorry if your vision is outdated. Cheers!

Still hate the rich, the wealthy create jobs taxes destroy them. I never had a good paying job from a poor man or failing company.

Your right Jim these young people don't realize what he is going to do to people like their grandparents who live on a fixed income. Not to mention our military who cuts are going to put our country and our fighting men and women in harms way. As the debt keeps climbing so will the taxes rich and poor.

well said Jim G. they are clueless so clueless

Not a hater, but a realist. To repeat, I do not hate Obama. I do not hate the Liberals and Democrats. I do get a little perturbed about those in the Democrat party who claimed that the Voter ID law was put in as voter disenfranchisement, when I know they were using that spin to provide cover for their voter fraud practices.
Nevertheless, I didn't write it, but the following quoted blog expresses my opinion for the next four years under Obama and a do-nothing Senate controlled by Democrats.

....
A dictatorship instead of a democracy that follows the Constitution, you own it.
Less take home pay and higher living costs, you own it.
Driving a car that looks like a toy, you own it.
More government corruption and lies, you own it.
More toleration of extreme and fanatical Islamists, you own it.
Terrorist attacks called "work place violence", you own it.
Voting for revenge instead of love of country, you own it.

President George Bush has been out of office for nearly four years now, and there is not another good man for you to vilify and lie about. In a way I am relieved that another good man will not be blamed when it was impossible to clean up this mess you voted for.

Have a good day.

God bless the United States! God is our only hope now."

I didn't write it, but the following quoted blog expresses my opinion for the next four years under Obama and a do-nothing Senate controlled by Democrats.
"Congratulations to the Democrats and Young People!
You now own it.
The next terrorist attack, you own it.
Can't get a job after graduation, you own it.
Sky rocketing energy prices due to Obama's EPA shutting down the energy producing states, you own it.
A nuclear Iran, you own it.
Bowing to the Soviet Union, you own it.
Another severe recession, you own it.
A volatile border with Mexico, you own it.
Trouble getting good health care, you own it.
Higher heath insurance costs and health care costs, you own it.
No budget, you own it.
Our allies mistrust, you own it.
Another trillion of debt, you own it.
More Benghazi situations, you own it.
No one willing to join the military, you own it.
Trouble getting a loan to buy a home, you own it.
More dependency on food stamps, you own it.
Trouble finding good employment, you own it.
Several part time jobs instead of a good job, you own it.
A World Government, you own it.
The UN governing the United States instead of ourselves, you own it.
A Senate that will not bring any House-passed legislation to the table, declaring it is "Dead on Arrival", you own it.
China controlling our world trade and trampling all over us, you own it.
Loss of our freedoms as we have known it in the past, you own it.
... to be continued.

still waiting!

SCREWED ROYALLY - THE TEA PARTY IS NOT GONE THOUGH, FOLKS.. NOT GONE - GET USED TO IT. CONSERVATIVE TEA PARTY SOUNDS GOOD.. WE WILL MAKE IT THROUGH THIS TRADEGY .. WE HAVE TO..

loyalbaldwin fan, as Erin says hooray because obama got elected as the young people can go on smoking their pot while living at home at their parents houses because they can't find jobs and the jobs and the good jobs out there do drug testing but her theory is no one cares anymore about pot smoking but employers will pay 250-1,000 to test for drugs and mask that these young kids use so they can try to hid what is in their system. If business didn't care who they were hiring they wouldn't be giving these test out.

What we need now is to start testing everyone that gets free government handouts, after all these are the people that put obama in office.

to proud American- that is so right on.. so intelligent and so true.. every thing you said..

Got rid of Obama care, created jobs.

Sorry Bob just want my rights, my freedom of choice and speech and I certainly don't want anything I haven't worked for.

Jefferson words will ring true just watch how many more rights we have taken away in the next four years

so true proud American!

this is just a rant and a bad one at that.

Proud American: Thanks for being articulate for Bob and offering intelligent, educated answers. He clearly isn't well read about the policies of Obama and what he really stands for. Bob has only offered insults on this forum. Too bad.

no insults from me, pittsburgh storm. this is just a rant! that is not an insult.

Obama care gives you lots of choices. he does not want people on handouts. and take Governor Christie R. word for it. Obama is doing a great job of helping the people stranded by sandy. there is nothing to this post that is intelligent or educated. that is no insult

Bob everything Proud American said is the truth but you have such a hard head that nothing can sink in expect the lies that obama tells. obama isn't giving you rights, he took them away from you.

Wrong on Obama care and no school goes through kids lunches. Obama speaks to the Governors every day. If he was there you would say he is doing it for attention. What "big government" are you talking about????

Mercy is all we have now - God's mercy

ive seen u on here before and ur remarks are always nasty/mean spirited

Isn't it funny how people in another country can see the problem and Americans who claim to love their freedoms don't

amos, you mean nasty/mean spirited like your deleted comments or when you all the young adults stupid .....yes, it's so much "nastier" to state that the GOPers here are crying in their beer. LOL.
Have a great four years, amos!

what deleted comments? and i am not blaming the kids for being dumber....i am talking about our educational system. what? you thought i was just picking on kids, lol. really? i am not excited about the next 4 years. think we will see even less people working and more people collecting and the rest of us will be supporting them!

it is the morning after susan! florida is not even done counting votes! we are not ready for warm fuzzy yet! we are all involved, concerned americans and are definitely grieving right now. give us a break!

Ditto!

OK, amos, I will forgive your nasty mean spirited comment above since you are grieving.

we already know the other side will not work with President Obama. It is now time to push thru the democratic agenda

Lets hope that the other side sticks to their conservative principles and fight harder then ever to try and keep our country from the fiscal cliff we are heading over in January

Totally agree with you!

you all will be whining thru the next 4 years... like sheep being led to slaughter.. maybe barry will pay for your gas and food and utilities... don't count on it..the Tea Party didn't particularly want Romney, but he was what we had - a rock would have been better than barry obama.. conservative's (not Republican's) wanted Newt or Santorum .... or anyone of them..

Right wingers ignore the facts. They only concern themselves with tea party lies. The republican party is doomed. How can anyone ignore what bush did to this country ? it must never happen again.
.

Well said...... how true Mark !

I'm not surprised to see all this whining period. The election is DONE.

well said, barbara!

Amos... just because you don't like to hear the truth about the Bush administration doesn't make it less true. Unlike the right, I don't need Rush and Fox to educate me on the issues. Abortion, healthcare, immigration.... what didn't Romney flip on? It's your type of head-in-the-sand rhetoric that makes you a loser this morning.

mark, talk about head-in-the-sand. u just elected the same guy who has destroyed our economy. he has done nothing in 4 yrs but make things worse. romney has a proven record...worked as govenor without pay...has a solid background. obama had a father who was a wife beating, cheating, baby making (all over the world) bigamist and his influences were all radicals

I wonder if Baldwin will put Chinese on their curriculum now.

your the only one who sounds that way!

bob, did you change your comment because you figured out that you spelled the word dumb wrong? saw your original comment, "dum." lol.

lol... so true!

Based on their IQ scores, today’s kids are smarter — so smart that many of their great-grandparents would have been found mentally deficient by today’s standards.
The gain in IQ scores averages about 3 points per decade. And the increases are beyond debate. Kids today also are less afraid to question things they deem wrong, contrary to what their parents believe. Which may explain why some older adults think the kids are "dumb". Those adults just can't stand being wrong.

"For researchers who attribute the increasing scores largely to rising U.S. education levels, there’s one problem: The biggest IQ gains over the years turn out to be on questions that measure pure intelligence, unaffected by schooling. (Example: How are sunrise and sunset similar?) And the smallest gains turn out to be in areas that schooling boosts. (Example: In what country are the Pyramids found?)

Flynn, after studying IQ test scores and achievement test results, found a solution to that paradox. He concluded that modern American kids, while relatively skilled in abstract thinking, lack a lot of the basic three R’s and rote knowledge that their forbears possessed. At age 10, when IQ tests are generally given, stronger abstract-thinking skills give them an edge. But by the time today’s students exit high school, their achievement levels in reading and math — and rote knowledge such as the location of the Pyramids — are much closer to their great-grandparents’, Flynn said."

Amos... your uninformed, racist reply just reinforces my argument.

Mark Carolla - here we go with the racist remarks again. It is unbelievable when the clueless don't know how to answer they play the race card. In this day and age not many care about skin color. obama used executive order to get rid of what Bill Clinton did in curbing people collecting welfare, foodstamps, medicaid because there are no jobs created, the economy hasn't gotten better under obama. New job rates will be out soon and since amusement park jobs and swimming pools are closed we are going to see a big spike in unemployment rate.

Amos I think we are so lucky that ne12ukid aka all its other alias has boasted about being a teacher, yet has proved over the last year how stupid they really are.

so that is it? he claims to be a teacher? i don't believe it because he was on here all day. if he is a teacher, he is not teaching! ..... hmmm.. there u go!

SMARTER! Do you have kids? Obviously not.

Excuse me?

Aw, Mike, didn't you hear, we're not supposed to comment on their ramblings because they are grieving.

NE12Ukid, you need to grow up. sad thing is.... you probably are a grown-up, acting like this.... not wasting anymore of my time on you. you have a nasty nature.

are you some kind of stalker NE12kid? that is pretty weird!

Watch Amos, NE12Ukid knows everything about everyone. No job I guess. Tracking everyones move. Typical Liberal at work. Or NOT at work...however you want to look at it

ne12ukid another welfare recipient who stalks people on the Patch and other forums that they post on.

is this really a conversation between adults????

Amos, there are very few adults posting to this site, if you hadn't noticed. And Bob, when you tell someone how stupid they are, you may want to get "you're" and "your" correct. This after correcting your misspelling of the word "dumb." Kind of ironic, isn't it? I mean, you're belittling someone for being "dum", yet you have trouble with you're and your...of course, as articulately as your posts are, we shouldn't be surprised.

No wonder we have four more years of someone wiping their posterior with our Constitution.

LOL, one thing we can count on is cc TRYING to bring my name into her every post (obsessed). At least she spelled the name right for a change, haha.

proudAmerican said: "Liberals can't win on points resort to name calling and accusations." but cc is no liberal sofaras I can see. But the basic premise holds.

i'm done. ...have to get to work so i can support the people who don't wanna work.

loved ur comments proud american!

Liberals won on points last night

Bullshit!

The majority of Americans don't know what's good for them. Half the kids I go to school with voted from the influence of negative adds or what their parents beliefs are. I pride myself on being down the middle when it comes to all issues. Very socially liberal but fiscally conservative. Simple Keynesian theory states that lowering taxes across the board and limiting spending will produce more people actually putting their money back into the economy. This simply wont happen now. And to say that someone making 250,000 dollars a year should be is the same tax bracket as someone who makes 5 million a year is also extremely illogical. All of these back and fourth arguments on this site are the same arguments our so called leaders are wasting their time with.

Frank Marshall Davis!!!! Did his mama know who her baby daddy was?

If you can't debate with facts lets bring up the name issue again I like mine Proud American

bob balmer i don't hide behind an alias, I use my initials why don't you get on ne12ukid aka ml, aka leonA aka other names that they hide under and are as clueless as you are. Bet your hoping your welfare check goes up now that obama won the election as your another one on here 24/7 since you have no life and no one wanted to play with you as a child. You grew up to be a nasty bully

proud American
1:22 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
If you can't debate with facts lets bring up the name issue again I like mine Proud American

Does have a catchy ring to it, LOL. You're right, though, cc has no facts so cc is constantly making up conspiracy theories about screennames.

Excellent post!

Well stated, maybe there IS hope for us yet! Keep remembering that. But I do want to point out that Obama had a Democratic majority his first two years, and even his own party refused to work with him.

Liberals need to remember that before saying that Republicans gridlock for no reason and they are the reason the President can't get anything done. What's the argument there, lefties? How did BUSH make that happen, since you blame everything on him anyway?

Unbiased high school student, shouldn't you be in school right now?

The reason high school kids are not as intelligent as they once where is because we have bad teachers who are protected by the unions. this report comes from Secretary or Education Duncan
In reading literacy, 15-year-old American students were average performers. The U.S. effectively showed no improvement in reading since 2000.

In mathematics, U.S. 15-year-olds are below-average performers ranked 25th

The most encouraging finding from PISA is that our average science score is up. In 2006, American 15-year-olds had below-average skills in scientific literacy, Today, U.S. students have improved enough to become average performers in science ranked 17th. And for you to make a personal judgement on Amos someone you have no personal knowledge of shows lack of judgement which if you are really a high school student will come with maturity.And before you think I am anti union , you will be wrong, members of my family are union members and proud of it. But we are not blind to the faults of the modern union. Now what has Obama done for education?

Amen!

Blame the parents, not the education system. Stupid parent=stupid kids. The American education system is one of the best. You have no clue! I have lived in several countries and surely know what I am talking about!

Haters wrong again worried American Citizens

Mark A. why is it when you disagree about Obama people want to call it racism maybe it is plain intelligence.

You are missing the actual facts. No, I was referring to the guy up at the top who said the minorities came out to vote for all their entitlements. Mmmm, that's tasty racism.

Erin you feel that we should have a nation that you can do whatever you want as long as it does hurt person or property. Your idea of the perfect world hurts me and my beliefs so should we have a regulation or a law.

Erin welcome back missed your wonderful ideas in this debate. I missed your progressive way of thinking and how everything is now sunshine and lollipops. All is well in the world and lets now have another Woodstock.

Government shouldn't regulate drugs but they can regulate what we eat and drink interesting thought.

Absolutely not. Government should not regulate what we eat. I am 100% smart enough to know that I should drink soda and that trans fats are bad for me, and I don't need a regulation to convince me. But lets not confuse "regulation" with "imprisonment." One is an inconvenience, the other is a life ruining act of violence against the convicted and the tax payers.

Not a progressive and that is honestly the first time I have ever been accused of being overly optimistic.

Can I realistically celebrate a few positive acts of government (that I already mentioned should have never been an issue in the first place) without being compared to a sixties music festival?

Meh. No matter. Good things have still come from this election by day one. I am sorry that you are so polarized that you cannot appreciate it even a little.

Ok we shouldn't regulate marijuana smoking according to you. What do you feel about drinking, meth,heroin, cocaine? Won't even discuss same sex marriage I know we have a totally different background and upbringing.

Ok. Once again. There is a difference between "regulation" and "illegal." Regulation results in having to buy 2 pops instead of 1. Illegal results in violent action taken against someone and their property and their family.

Who is this "we?" I am not imprisoning, stealing, or abusing anyone for smoking pot. Are you?

Here is the thing about same sex marriage. You don't have the right to tell someone they cannot marry. I am sorry, but you do not. What right you think you have, is going to be gone very soon. It is a fallacy and an obstruction to someone else's freedom. It is a 100% fact that you have never and will never be harmed by gay couples marrying. I don't care if you like it. I don't care how you were raised. I don't care how I was raised. You, me, governor corbett, the catholic church, president obama, and the pope have about the same authority for restricting gay marriage...which is zero. The restriction now is a poorly executed fabrication which is dissolving quickly.

No, we will not go to your background and opinion because I do not give a flying pig what you think about gay couples marrying. People who think opinion should dictate legislation and other's lives are absurdly egocentric.

Those sound like aggressive words, but they are not. I don't give a flying pig what my grandmother thinks either...my boyfriend...my mentor...or anyone. If it doesn't hurt you, mind your own business.

And there is the answer to the rest of your question/comment. The ultimate standard. You do whatever you want as long as it is not hurting me or anyone else (that includes person and property). It is a difficult standard to embrace bc each one of us is so darn sure that we know what is best, and lets be honest, our opinions are typically based on pundits and religious leaders...They are not even our own.

Are you strong enough to let go of this idea that your opinion should dictate the actions of others? I doubt it. It is really hard. I struggle with it, but that is my standard. If you are not hurting me, someone else, or someone else's property, then I do not care.

Erin

Doom and Gloom is what the United States is going to be for the next 4 years and it isn't nonsense.. So just because you want to stop talking about it doesn't mean others don't want to so if you don't like it then quit responding on here. Simple solution.

I'm glad your happy about decriminalization of marijuana in Colorado (and I believe another state as well). WASHINGTON. but that doesn't stop the FEDERAL Government from stepping in. Forgot your a college student and this is important to you. I'm surprises your not wanting the drinking age lowered to 17 or 18.
You might not care about smoking pot but don't say others don't care about it as it is still out of control in this country with middle and high school students, along with other drugs.

Not sure when Pennsylvania passed a law for Equal marriage rights so can you enlighten me on this as I have a gay employee and said this isn't true in our state at all, but your happy about this?????

I don't agree with you that this is all good news but for a college kid who likes to smoke pot and not sure about your sexual orientation then so be it that your happy.

Wow....I hope and sincerely pray that your gay employee finds a new employer though I am pretty much positive that your employees and business are a fabrication.

Yes, CC. I am a pot-smoking, 18yr old lesbian because only a homosexual on the weed would care about equal marriage rights and the fact that we spend millions per state imprisoning people on marijuana related charges.

Sometimes I do not even think you are an actual person but just someone that likes to pull people's legs with these insane responses.

No PA has not made same sex marriage legal.

What I said was "Okay so the day after the elections we already have equal marriage rights for same sex couples in Maine, Maryland, and Washington (?)."

After that what I meant was we are on the inevitable road to equal marriage rights for all american citizens...and we are.

So why don't you go back to your gay employee and ensure them that they will not be allowed to legally wed just yet.

Erin -Since your a professional student who wants to be a writer why don't you go do research on drug testing and marijuana smoking (that you don't think nobody cares about anymore), and find out why students coming out of college can't land jobs as they can't pass drug test.

In fact why don't you come out to my company and spend a week going out with our reps that do the drug testing and listen to all the excuses as to why they can't pass drug test especially college students who think the mask they been taking will hide everything or have an excuse why something like THC might be in their system. It isn't their isn't jobs for kids coming out of college it is getting pass a drug test that stops them from getting great paying job as companies do have a no tolerance for any type of drug in their system, and we do look for masks that they try to use also. We can even pinpoint to how old a sample is when they try to use someone else sample. College students who smoke pot think they can beat the system but somehow never land the perfect job when it comes to drug testing. So think again when you says no one cares about smoking pot as many companies do care as to the degree of drugs they will tolerate in a person system.

Then again why would I want to torture an employee as your writing is long winded and probably how you talk in real life.

Erin will be 50 years old and still a pot smoking college student that will still be living in her mommy and daddies basement. As a writer you will never make it as you only think one way and anyone that argues with you is wrong and is to long winded Unlike your parents that raises a professional student that is afraid to get her feet wet out in the real world. I happen to believe that you will never make anything out of your life other than racking up student loans and living off your parents. Then hopefully when they get their you'll be there to take care of them when all the will be getting from the government is comfort care instead of the medical treatment that they need.

You don't believe the Military is there fighting for you freedom that we have in the United States but love living under a socialist president, again clueless and not very smart.
I personally don't care if you believe I own a business as your pea of a brain doesn't know how the world works, typical of a professional pot smoking college student.

Reading these posts is like reading an argument for why our school system has always been failing. Nobody knows how to spell! No wonder we think our kids are so "dum".

Don't know how to spell, or don't know how to type and have a lot of typos? I can spell, I can't always type, and to be honest i don't take the time to proof read comments on a blog. So all the typos go through. It's where we set our priorities. Another subject no one can agree.....priorities.

CB2012, where are the racist remarks???? appears to me, that u are the one doing the name-calling, ie "rednecks." oh, that is different is it? you are the only one today that i have heard flaunting degrees and such. many of us on here are educated. do not assume that you are better! ...especially with statements like that! i voted for Romney. it is the day after the election. i have every right to voice my disappointment... and it does not make me racist!!!

CB2012 you don't know any of our backgrounds, incomes, education so what gives you the right to call us ignorant and racist. If you are such a great American you should embrace free speech. Redneck mentality, most of these people will give you the shirt off their back in a time of need and they are also hard working people who are just as important as you are.

You might make more money than most of us who posted on here now, but after Obamacare is in full effect, you will have a huge paycut. I hope in your case because you need a huge piece of humble pie.

Amos, thank you nurses are a big part of the medical field that never gets recognition for what they do, the hard work and hours they put in to keep patient comfortable and keep families in the loop of what is going on with their love ones When obamacare takes full effect it is you who are nurses that will be taking care of all the patients that can't get medical treatment as they are to old and obamacare won't be paying for the right treatment of patients.

and we have the audacity to be upset. ...meanwhile, if the shoe were on the other foot....????

this was from 12:30p. it is now 5:44p. you found one comment from earlier today and that gives you the right to label us all? aren't you doing the same thing? none of us had made any racist remarks. it you want to attack someone, talk to, "girty." you are just as bad with your, "redneck" label! racisim doesn't just work one way!

I never said all of you. I didn'twant to specifically point out every poster individually. And it's ignorance, not ignorants.

Before you correct someone else's spelling, you might want to step off of your high horse and look at your own.

Well done again! If politics and political theories interest you, you should check out freetalklive.com. It is a nightly radio show where people just call in and talk about whatever they want. Most of the hosts are typically aligned with libertarian thought, but all kinds of people call in. Mostly people frustrated with this kind of discourse and the current state of politics.

I rarely agree with everything on a show, but I almost always appreciate the level of discourse, and I definitely always am forced to seriously consider my own political beliefs.

http://www.freetalklive.com/

Hi campiagn, you're right. I'm sorry if I offended you and that it was misconstrued as aimed at the entire Pittsburgh region.

Oh, and good for you for being on here and voicing your views! Good luck with school and beyond. I'm sure you will be very successful in life!

Oh and Itunes has podcasts for free, and I recommend Sunday's show with Stephanie and Mark. When Ian and Mark host together, they can get a little aggravating with the yelling at each other. What is really funny is you can tell that they are trying reeeeaaalllyyyy hard to allow everyone to speak and to encourage civil discourse. They are just not always so successful. :)

Campaign you are a very bright young person and you have a very bright future ahead of you maybe even politics,

Campaign don't listen to any of the so called free thinging programs just be yourself and always think for yourself you'll have a bright future ahead of you

Ha! "So called free thinking programs?" Please elaborate.

Erin out of respect for you in the pass you have suggested these sites and I when to them and listen for a while.These sites favor your way of thinging and this young person needs to choose their own path.

That is interesting considering that you have told me before that FTL is a libertarian site. I have said multiple times that I don't agree with everything on that show, but that it is a great thinking exercise. But FTL is my way of thinking?

And earlier you told me I was a progressive which would be the opposite of libertarianism and FTL.

And previously you have told me that I am an undercover Obama supporter trying to sway people to vote _that_ way.

So here is the thing. I can't be all of these things. It is impossible. Unlike you, I am constantly challenging my own beliefs and would never impose my will on others through legislation or simple listening/reading recommendations.

So by suggesting that I am all of these radically different people with these underhanded goals other than to have a decent political conversation and share some information, is _incredibly_ insulting to me and shows _zero_ respect for me or anything that I have said. In fact, it shows that you do not listen/read what I say at all.

Erin sorry you get so upset by debates if you believe in yourself you shouldn't have to challenge yourself. We are a nation of laws some you like some you don't we just can't let people decide what they want to obey and what they don't simple. I normally don't talk about my religious beliefs but this country was built on religious beliefs One Nation Under God like it or not. I have no problem with gay people they are free to live their lifes the way they want but you also have to understand this country is still roughly 75% christian and the belief is marriage is between a man and a women. Should gay couple have right yes totally agree but what is wrong in fighting for rights and not changing the whole system. The christian beliefs in our country is always asked to be understanding, can't use the word christmas, easter etc. in schools, can't have a nativity set, they want to take down all crosses and ten commandments etc things that have stood for decades and never bothered anyone. Where is the compromise from these other groups why aren't they understanding of our beliefs?

Proud American says: " if you believe in yourself you shouldn't have to challenge yourself."

This is not a debate and that above statement by you is why this conversation is over and a waste of my time.

Wahoo! That definitely is a GREAT thing:)

Wahoo indeed! That is a GREAT thing!

Erin, I personally don't care that Tammy Baldwin is a LGBT, what I care about is that she is doing her job. I'm sure there are many reasons other than her being a LGBT and her winning her seat in Congress.
Jay Polis 2008 was the first openly gay person elected to the house, which wasn't any big deal back then either. It is the job they do and has nothing to do with them being gay.

all you do is try to start trouble. go away! we have all discussed this like adults and are very happy with our discussion. why do you insist on starting fights on here?

amos, amos, amos, you can't just stamp your foot and tell anyone you don't like to "go away" that's not the way these boards work. That might work on the playground, but it's not the way things are done in the grown up world.
You can "play" here, or YOU can leave, you can't make others leave.
So you don't like me quoting your exact words in reply? Tough.
You were right, you did not say "not as intelligent", you said "kids are dumber today than ever!"
The young highschooler didn't sound dumb to me.
I know, I know, nothing is your fault, you're grieving....
(and btw, what "fights"?)

being as how you have been on here all day and even talk about other boards, apparently you have no job and no life. i have both and you are becoming tedious. i will leave. you can play by yourself, as i'm sure you are quite used to.

amos, you crack me up.
You posted on Patch at 2AM, were back at 8:30AM and have been here pretty much all day yourself, with 32 posts so far today.
Playing pot, kettle, black, perhaps? LOL

Hi Joyce,

I wish you the best and hope that you can get assistance to survive not just four years, but the remainder of your life! I also hope that you do get that business grant to start your business and fufill your dreams! I know things may seem hopeless, but they will get better!

Not everyone.

Potential. yes, a good thing.
Best to you, to Joyce, and to all young Americans working toward their DREAM.
No one said it would be easy, but good things can be done!

You are wise beyond your years -- keep up the great work!

ne12ukid you are so clueless and a bully of the patch. You on other post bragged about being a teacher and i'm not like you who keeps records of what people post on the patch. Your the one that goes from post to post stalking others. No one wants to play with you, since your a bitter old person who doesn't have a life outside of the patch. did you already spend your government welfare check and foodstamp and now stuck in the house for another month.

i don't know what you are new12ukid. i am very relieved that you are not teaching our young people. you are the only one on here that i have seen acting with questionable decorum. we've had some good discussions on here. ...sometimes a little heated but civil. you seem to always cause trouble just like you are doing now.

now, amos, think about it.
It's heated when they agree with YOU, and "questionable decorum" when they disagree?
Glad you at least didn't fall for cc's delusions. I don't know where she dreams this stuff up.

Amen to tha, JS! Well put:)

I agree wholeheartedly, JoshO! Majority of these highly misinformed comments come down to one thing. Ignorance!

I agree with you and I'm a republican,(a leftist republican if that's even allowed)
but when it comes down to it, our biggest issue is our economy and Obama has had four years to curb this a bit and in the big picture hasn't. Yes, Bush Jr. didn't leave him with a smooth transition but neither did Jimmy Carter for Reagan. We didn't have to listen to Reagan blame Carter for everything, he got to work plain and simple. Simply put, Romney has a proven track record when it comes to economic success, he did outsource jobs but also saved many companies in the process. He wasn't a miracle worker but did save several struggling companies. So before everyone calls him a corporate raider or believes all of the negative adds, maybe read about some of the successes he did achieve. If the GOP ever gets it's social agenda to match the modern world, we will see them in the White House in 2016, hopefully not blaming Obama, but getting shit done.

JS and Josh O Schools and military- certainly schools are important their is no reason we shouldn't have good schools and strong military get rid of the stupid wastefully spending programs, one example we all have seen the shrimp on a treadmill and their are 100's of them. This country needs to get priorities not pet projects to pay people off for campaign funds.
With Terrorist attacking all over the world the last thing we need to do is cut back on military don't forget 911. Our brave young men and women need all the equipment they need not cut backs.
We all know some people have it tough in this country and they do need government help once in awhile. Welfare, food stamps, etc. but it can't be a life style. This president cut back the program that after a period on welfare you need to get a job why to cover up his failure in creating jobs.
Democrates are not in the habits of invading countries and killing thousands, really.
These are all democrates WWI-Wilson, WWII-Roosevelt, Vietnam-Kenndy and Johnson, Korean-Truman he also dropped the atomic bomb on Japan. You can look up the total of lives lost.

JS and Josh- O.Obama care has one or two good points but let me tell you what has happen since it was passed from something I know about. People living on SS and Medicare ( which goes up every year) the supplement insurance has risen for my household by over $4000 a year and our perscription plans co-pay has doubled. But this is even more disturbing:
Robert Gibbs confirms central part of Romney-Ryan attack on Obamacare’s IPAB
August 19, 2012 | 4:08 pm
Does President Obama’s health care law empower an “unelected, unaccountable” panel of 15 bureaucrats to make decisions that will cause people to lose access to health care? “Yes,” according to the man who spoke for the president when Democrats passed the law. If you have elderly members in your family it should concern you becuase we really don't know yet how far this is going to go like the rest of Obama Care. The cost of insurnace was to go down and it has gone up so I am saying their is truth to this.

Ok, I see we are now qualitying this to those that don't have a father in the picture can't work hard and achieve the American dream. there is always a new arguement. Now how do we take that arguement and apply it to gay marriage?

Sue T.you are so right and your life story is very inspiring you are the kind of people we need to be teaching our young people today.

I brought up 5 children on my own as my husband passed away. 3 graduated college and one went Military. one is still in high school and plans on going to college and has been accepted to 6 schools so far.

A single parent can do the same as having 2 parents and Josh O you are an insult to people who are single parents. I also own my own business which I started after I lost my husband and have 58 employees. I went to college while mine were little plus worked a full time job, my children were involved heavy into sports too.

Just because you needed 2 parents to make you into the person you are, doesn't mean all people need that, there are circumstances on why there aren't two parents raising children that some have no control over.

well said CC!!!!!!! could not agree more!!!!!

I think Mitt was having a fire sale on some old speeches.

I have had the good fortune to listen to quite a few leading historians from Pitt and CMU on the subject of public housing (historical and modern application), and I can tell you that I have yet to witness a historian (_more_ than a cursory grasp of history obviously) who would ever in a million years make a statement like "welfare has never worked" or "the new deal was a failure for generations to come" as fact.

I think that you probably know this or you just don't really care.

For proud, this is actually why I have a problem with the hosts on FTL as they make sweeping generalizations about government and past government policy that is pretty irresponsible as far as accuracy is concerned. Still the most thought provoking radio talk show that I have ever listened to.

Direct response to comment above.

well if we were like your kind, we could take lessons from the liberal left - dems - look at how lies, cheap shots, more lies, living off government and off others money that we work hard for.... free birth control to live promiscuously, bribing the illegals and young people and buying their votes.. on and on.. well, we are not that hypocritical - we live by our values so we will be ok... and keep fighting for our justice - and not be ashamed of it.. so dont cry when your paycheck dwindles to pay those that prefer not to work for a living... there is your redistribution president.

...always did love your sense of humor Bob...

Agree with Lynne. :)

"now it is time to stop blaming the other side..." it was Obama's fault.

for four years Obama has double our debt.

This is one!

bob balmer their are no lies on my last post point out one thing that is a lie.

you have to do both. let the bush tax cuts expire and do cuts spending including defense. It is just pointing out the truth that it was bush who approved the biggest government intrusion in our history not blaming.

hey Bob...meet me for lunch someday...you pick the place and time...

cc he will still be blaming Bush and those terrible Republicans he can't take any responsibility for any thing it is always someone elses fault.

Keep on praying brother. Amen!

proud American
2 hours ago
cc he will still be blaming Bush and those terrible Republicans he can't take any responsibility for any thing it is always someone elses fault.

This is not true! I love republicans. some of my best friends are republican. I even have my republican mother in law living with me( not because of Obama policies) and A big shout out to Chuck Grassley for saving her from the death panels.

"Obummer?" Really? I hope you're not a grown adult disrespecting our President so immaturely. And how bad do you anticipate things are going to get, cc? I crack up every time I hear that because when people say this they normally have no facts to substantiate such a broad statement.

CB2012 - You want to know how bad it is going to get. I'll give you a little hint. I own a business and employ 58 people and was paying close to 80% of my employees medical insurance. Now thanks to obummer and him removing tax breaks, I will now only be paying 27% -33% of my employees medical payments. Profit sharing will be cut because of taxes on the business. I'm such a happy camper that obummer is getting rid of tax breaks for the rich that I have to know pass these cost down to my employees. It is either cut what i'm paying in medical or lay off employees. Great choice that obummer is handing everyone that owns a business. More unemployment is all that is going to come out of this and that is exactly what obummer wants, more people dependent on the welfare.

If you need more places to cut i will be glad to provide them and one of the biggest cuts it should be all of the unnessary spending going on in the White House for entertainment and trips and vacations and hundreds of staff following them around. And that include Congress and the House also stop spending taxpayers money while we have to cut back what is good for us is good for you after all we are paying them.

Wow! I swear I heard AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL while I read your post

Which is why it is not the right time for major military cuts. We have an unemployment rate of 7.9 (actually quite a bit higher counting the underemployed and those that stopped looking). One group that has a hard time finding employment is vets. Major cuts in military spending would put more veterans on the streel. It would also have major impacts on military contractors. We are in a fragile economy right now. I'm not saying the military cuts shouldn't be made in the future, but doing them now could throw the economy into a tail spin.

Bob...lunch???

there you again. this is just another rant!

you forgot to mention Benghazi!

This whole situation stops at the President of the United States not somebody who's willing to take the blame or is forced to take the blame. He claims to be such a great leader then be one in reality and not in words.

we don't know yet!

Oh you are so full of hyperbolic, polarized pseudo-sympathy nonsense. "A True Leader" and those "brave Americans." Oh for Pete's sake. I can barely stomach it anymore. Every piece of information you have about Benghazi is speculation and conspiracy theory straight from Fox and Friends. You pretend like we are fighting some sort of noble war after war in the Middle East, and it just makes me ill.

You want America to lead the world into democracy and liberation (a bunch of hogwash) through military strength because the world should be kept afraid of us while we murder them, install their governments that murder them, and take everything their economy has to offer.

All so you can feel safe bc the same media makes you afraid for a VOTE. Maybe that is why this is bothering you so much? Supporting these military operations and occupations gets people killed, so when they die it has to be some sort of inflated conspiracy by a bad bad man to make you feel better about yourself.

Our govt/military does bad things for the missions that you support.

What about all of the people in Bahrain who are getting kidnapped, tortured, and killed by a tyrannical government whose military is supplied by the USA because they happen to be located in a strategic military position for our navy? Those are all well documented facts much of which is on USA govt official websites.

But why would you care when it does not support your political party's agenda?

Quoting: ".... Every piece of information you have about Benghazi is speculation and conspiracy theory straight from Fox and Friends. ...."

By definition, that information source only speaks speculation and conspiracy? Do we hear you correctly?

Erin, you clearly haven't followed the story. The details of how the event unfolded was watched and heard in real time by high-ranking officials in Wash DC, those who were in a position to understand the significance of the event. The capture of what happened, and reporting, is hardly speculation and conspiracy. If anybody thinks this to be the case, then we have a much bigger problem.

The best news of the Petraius story is that it will force an investigation into the connection between his involvement in both the relationship to the woman, and his relationship to the Benghazi event. MSM loves sex scandals, but despises the idea that the Administration acted wrongly to respond to the terrorists. However, the sex part of the case may be enough for MSM to delve more deeply into the Benghazi event, and the loss of four American lives.

@ Erin---The State Department testified in front of Congress that they watched the attack real time. They also testified that there had been previous requests for additional security which were denied. And, trestified it was not due to budgetary issues, but that secuitry was determined security to be at "the appropriate level" for this type of consultate.. Initally, the State Department was saying the attack was due to the video. Then on Oct 11th, they held a conference call with reportors saying they knew all along it was a terrorist attack. Source of information. CSPAN confirmed by CNN. Even the NYTimes has covered this Erin. It's not just a FOX news things. It's just that pretty much all the other news outlets got quiet about it 2 or 3 weeks before the election.

Who was afraid to vote? My understanding is the turnout was pretty high. In fact, at least at my polling place, the line moved quickly. Everyone had their photo ID's out and ready, and didn't hold up the process at all.

Sounds exactly like what cc does when her rants and ramblings are debunked.

Even one service man or woman not given their right to vote is is some thing their commander-in-chief should be ashamed of.

why does obama hate america?

What happened was, absentee ballots from a couple of states went out too late for those in the military (overseas0 to get them back in time. That's just wrong.

You are right Sue T. there is not excuse for anyone serving our country not get to vote for not only his or her president but also there commander-in- chief.

Me almost the same as the last election only the bags of ballots coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan were lost till 2 years after the election.

proud american this is america. lets wait till we get all the facts first before we blame anyone.

that's funny coming from you bob when people post facts you call that ranting. And me never said Obama hated America but is policies are killing America you know those pesty facts I posted and ranted about.

bob balmer you are such a clueless person, the facts are out there but you have such a thick brain you don't comprehend what is going on.

on this matter. I shall wait till my elected officials investigate.

As soon as you get rid of your religious nut jobs I will join you!

bob jokes but he has a point, the right has to stop pandering to religion. Republican did NOT equal religion just a few decades ago, religion was just a subset of a greater conservative cause. Reagan started all this nonsense, whipping up the religious right to whore for votes. I know lots of people who left the party out of disgust. Conservative does not automatically mean religious.

Speaking of not inspiring, ... young college kids who have spent way too much time at the campus coffeehouse, knowing that this is the next generation in the pipeline!

Sorry, Erin, your comment was about "speculation and conspiracy." For some, there is clearly much more in the journey, than in the destination. There is much more pleasure associated with the dancing around, than to address the matter at hand. Maturity will squeeze out some of this thinking.

Well Roger, maturity will eventually squeeze out all of our thinking...At about 30 years old my next step is wisdom and then senility. Where abouts are you at on the inevitable scale of brain rot these days?

Roger I think we have really upset Erin and she doesn't like us a whole lot. Sorry Erin

Oh come on. How many times can a grown woman be referred to as "young college kid who has spent way too much time at the campus coffeehouse" before I can legitimately crack an old man joke? Not even my own standards for myself are so high that I would deny myself an old man crack after over 6 months of this.

I never said Fox and Friends isn't biased. It's very biased. But your original post was so general it sounded like you thought everything was fine and good with what happened in Lybia, at least until the State Dept apponted investigator tells you otherwise.

But, there is other bias out there. On opposite Fox and Friends is the Today Show. Matt Lauer is as bad as Gretchen (? don't know her last name) on Fox and Friends. He just comes from the left, as she comes from the right. That's why when there are hearings, press conferences, etc. I stick to CSPN. You can watch them un-interupted and come up with your own opinion. As an FYI, Fox does not list Fox and Friends as a news show on the schedule. They list it as an entertainment show. So any watchers should keep that in mind. Foxe's first show of the day listed as a News show is on at the 9:00 hour following F&F.

Sue, Oh no. That was my mistake. Yeah, I did not mean to say that everything was fine and dandy with the Libya situation. I was just coming off of watching actually evening coverage of Benghazi and Petraeus, so I was very frustrated at the time.

And I think we have both agreed that all television news programming is absurdly biased.

And yes, I know that you know that Fox and Friends is very far from a reliable news source, but I do not think that others (on this thread) know this. I could be wrong. But yeah, morning shows are terrible. I hope that I am never a part of the demographic that they cater to because it is really disheartening.

You can't honestly feel that military men and women fighting and dying every day are not protecting your freedoms. they have been fighting since we have became a country to make sure no one takes us over and strips us of our freedoms. And SOPA has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it is people on the internet stealing things that have a copyright. Let see in your world you wouldn't have military would you?

How? What freedoms have they protected? How specifically have we become more free since the Iraq war? Please tell me.

So yes. I honestly feel that way. How can you have such a distaste for the current administration but so much adoration for the military which is only the hand of congress and the current administration?

I have never seen a more stupid comment than from Erin here.

Someday you will grow up and learn how foolish you sounded in this forum.

Yeah yeah. Here comes the blowback from criticizing the actions of the USA military. Heaven forbid. I must be a commie.

Nobody calls you stupid for questioning congress, but when you question the armed hand of congress that can only act on behalf of congress and the president, it is totally not cool.

Yes, I am sure my own standout stupidity will be smacking me in the face any day now.

Our military has nothing to do with who's president. Why are you so angry?

"Our military has nothing to do with who's president." Really?

Okay, I let me rephrase. I do not approve of the decisions of congress and the president to arm foreign governments, choose the govt of other countries in the name of democracy, assassinate american citizens without trial, etc.

If I criticize the President's decisions instead of the actions taking place as a result of that decision does it make everything easier for you to understand?

No, the "blowback" is from making stupid comments. When the US military saved a continent [WWII] were they unrighteous for invading another country? When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, was our Military wrong in responding? When they fought back Communist oppression in Europe [ a Soviet Government that killed 25 million of its own people and a philosophy [Communism] that is responsible for over 100 million deaths in the 20th Century], were they irresponsible? Your right to say ignorant and stupid things is guaranteed by someone else's blood. Those people wear the uniform of the US military.

Well, I specifically said a few times that no war has defended my freedom after 1950. WWII ended in 1945. That was probably the last justifiable involvement in a war/foreign military occupation.

The "philosophy" of communism is not responsible for any deaths. Oppressive dictators in multiple countries have been responsible for deaths...How many deaths has the USA military caused? How about just Hiroshima and Nagasaki alone? Over 200,000 I think, but we are excused from those deaths, but you can lump together every death that ever resulted from a dictator that abused its people in the 20th century (are you counting Hitler as a communist here?) as a result of the philosophy of communism? How about the deaths that resulted from the attempted containment of communism/socialism has resulted in many many deaths since 1945.

Regardless, I don't really get your point. I am asking how the military has protected my freedom since the 1950s and you are giving me commie threat stats? So maybe the better question is do you think that we under are the threat of communism? Is the red scare still happening?

Are you saying that if we had not declared war on Iraq and in Afghanistan I would somehow be less free? Do tell.

Mark agree with you on your comment.

Erin,
You agree that our involvement in WWI was justified, yet you decry the acts that ended the war: the atomic bombing of two Japanese cities. That act, authorized by Truman, was estimated to have saved 1-2 million lives since the Japanese were formidable foes with no thoughts on retreat. While the bombings were sad events since many lives were lost, they were necessary events which ended a brutal war and prevented any additional bloodshed. In your life time, US citizens were rescued by the Marines and Navy in Grenada [St George's Medical School], lives saved in Bosnia, Lebanon, Israel, Africa, etc. US freedom protection in Poland [although Obama ordered the missles removed], and Germany as well as Korea and other global areas. At home the Military action following 9/11 resulted in the death of Osama Bin Laden, the FBI's most wanted man responsible for the deaths of 3000 Americans. The defense by deterrence of military presence has protected countless lives. Perhaps you cannot see this more global picture now, but hopefull you will understand at some point in your life.

WWII. Not one.

I disagree with you on almost all of your points and the crazy fact that you just said that I need an international perspective considering your extraordinarily ethnocentric interpretation of history (especially in Africa) shows me that there is really no point.

Still...You have not given me one specific way that the military has defended my freedom as proud American says over and over. How has an American citizen become more free through actions of the military (as an institution, not an individual) as ordered by congress.

Sue makes a distinction saying that all of these things are in fact _not_ actions of the military but orders by congress. I am sorry...But does the military do anything as far as foreign ventures that are not ordered by congress? So I maintain that if I am unhappy with congress and the president's activities in foreign countries, then I am unhappy with the military.

And this is not to demonize the military or deny that they do good. It is simply to say that the military has not done anything to support my freedom. If congress were to declare martial law, I don't think the military would turn on congress and defend the people. The military is a tool of the government, not of the american citizen. (Exactly why jefferson warned against a standing army hence the 2nd amendment). Like the government, it can do good and bad, but Proud cannot even thank obama for assisting Christie in hurricane relief. Oh the shame!

Erin - you said that "The "philosophy" of communism is not responsible for any deaths"....the US federal government does not agree. Here is a link to the Victims of Communism Memorial website: http://www.victimsofcommunism.org/

Most interesting is that while the memorial was launched in 2009, the bill creating the memorial was passed unanimously in 1993 by all democrats and republicans. Furthermore, the memorial specifically states that its mission is to "...commemorate the more than 100 million victims of communism." Not communist leaders, but communism.

Ha. Yes Mike. The United States would say that as the United States government is also responsible for deaths and the tragic demolition of democracy in the name of stopping the spread of communism. (Patrice Lumumba and the DRC "I am not a communist.")

So I, and hundreds of thousands of others (if not more counting entire populations of people internationally) would disagree with the USA government.

And it would not be the first time...hahahaha. Sorry. That was just really funny. "Well, the United States government says that the philosophy of communism _is_ responsible for deaths...." hahahahahaha. The USA government also says that the government of Bahrain is reforming its ways as they kidnap, beat and torture their citizens...But don't worry guys, it is totally okay to give them guns and money, after all our fifth navy fleet is positioned their as it is close to the Straight of Hormuz.

@Erin--The distinction I see Erin in what the military does vs what the Commander and Chief tells them to do is straight forward. I firmly believe that the mere presence of the the military defends our freedom. The bases at our boards and stratigically placed around the world does defend our freedom, and protects our citizens abroad as well as our "friends". So, I think the military protects us just by being who they are. Now, when it gets into actions overseas, those decisions are made by the commander and chief and the dispute is with him, not the military itself. Some i agree with, some I don't. I'm not going to go through them line by line. So, the difference between you an me is that while you don't think the military defends our freedom, I think that their reputation and size alone defends us without ever taking a shot.

you are just nit picking now, I feel he should have did more I didn't say he hated America so he has left them with out electricity and water and food. How would your like to be cold and in the dark and you go to the government agency that he has full control of and you read a sign that said closed because of the weather.

same here didn't say anything about hate

Wow! Your a tough one to please. I can see your going to have a tough time the next four years.

bob balmer I won't be alone in that tough time as these next for years unfold we may very well all be hurting. I pray I'm wrong and yes I did say pray but I not a religous nut just a conservative who is glad I have religion in my life

Sorry bob balmer i don't want to come and visit you at your house. To scary there

Most of the issues people are attributing to the military on here, have absolutely nothing to do with the military. They have to do with politics and the instructions from Congress and the Commander and Chief.

I hear america the beautiful!

I am surprised that you do not have all the facts in this!

There is no evidence that smoking marijuana poses any significant threat of causing cancer. In fact, some studies have shown that marijuana may actually encourage programmed cell death in lung cells.

Actually, studies has shown marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70 percent more cancer-causing compounds than does tobacco smoke. Here's a summary, there is more detail in the articles linked.

http://womenshealth.gov/smoking-how-to-quit/other-forms-tobacco-nicotine-marijuana/marijuana.cfm

And from the American Lung Association

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about-smoking/health-effects/marijuana-smoke.html

So, maybe you don't beleive the evidence, but there is evidence.

Not only completely wrong but absolutely ridiculous. The American people disagree with your statement and your ideas, proud American.
We re-elected President Obama because we feel that he is the best person for the job, not Mitt Romney.
Mitt Romney's economic plan, at least the parts that he bothered to disclose,wouldn't work. I prefer the opinion of economists over a flawed businessman.

The rest of us are laughing at you. Get comfortable with it.

And focus on grammar and spelling. If you want anyone to take what you type seriously, then you need to put a little more effort into it.

Amen to that. obama ego is going to burst the tiny pea of a brain that he has. Taking the tax break away from business owners isn't going to help the economy, it is going to put more people on unemployment. Thank goodness we got Republicans running the House and will keep obama from doing more destruction to the USA.

no the welfare people came out of the woodwork to vote for obama so they wouldn't lose their free money, foodstamps and medical to put him back in office. It is a shame that they were bought off by the democrats and free stuff is worth more to them then actually wanting to work. Then again this administration over the last 4 years didn't create any jobs and more will be gone by the end of the year. Companies will only be hiring part time workers so they don't have to pay for obummercare.

And once again, cc comes "out of the woodwork" to amuse us with her bizarre posts.

According to the Department of Health and Human Services there 4.3 million Americans on welfare.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

According to Fox News President Obama received 62,615,406 votes
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2012-election-results/

cc - Why did the other 58 million people re-elect President Obama?

cc hate fact! cc hate democrat! cc hate mike! cc hate everything!

Bread Good........Fire Bad

Mike you are right their are two groups of people ones following a dream and the other that is facing reality . I don't and millions also don't believe in the so called dream we know Obama is leading us down a path that leads to the cliff. If he keeps thinking he can tax the rich the job creaters they are rich enough to leave when they get fed up ,like the rich that are leaving California the tax state.Then who pays the price the middle class who are loosing jobs by the thousands or being cut back to part time work. Who is going to pay for Obama care when employers stop paying insurance and the worker can't afford the insurance that the government says they must have. Reality is a little scary at least that group is prepared when that golden goose doesn't lay that golden egg

The rich are not job creators, they dodge paying taxes and cheat the system.
Also, they will not be leaving the United States.

Mike, who signs the paychecks, the one making $100K/yr, or the one making $30K/yr? Who makes the large investments in the financial markets, the one making $50K/yr, or the one making $500K/yr? Capital is the lifeblood our economy, and where would you be without those who continually fund the markets? What group is paying 90% of the Fed Income taxes, those making $500K/yr, or those making $40K/yr?

Why do you think your statements are correct?

Mike you are so delusional, the rich don't create jobs. Who then in your book creates them. Mickey Mouse, Elmo, Bat Man, Donald Duck. obummer has never created a job, either, he even failed at running his own lemonade stand.

Companies will be more likely to move overseas then pay more in taxes then what they are paying now. Full time jobs will be cut down to part time, companies will quit paying for health care and leave that up to their employees to pay. Small business will go under 50 employees so they don't have to provide medical.

But you climb out from under your rock once a month to go collect your welfare.

So every single person that makes $500,000/year is a job creator? Baloney!

And why were mroe jobs created in Clinton's administration when taxes were higher than in Bush II's administration when taxes were lower.

Enough of the tax dogding cheats! The rich need to do their patriotic duty and pay taxes!
And if you're not rich and support their tax dodging then you're fooling yourself.

Trickle down economics haven't worked. The concept and practice has been rammed down our throats by the GOP for the last 30 years.

cc - Watch who you call delusional. Your bizarre rantings on Patch have earned you the 2012 Aluminium Foil Hat award.

And don't bother responding, I'd pay more attention to one of your farts than anymore of your ramblings.

Getting rid of the of the tax break for those of $250K will generate enough revenue to run the country for two days and the current spending rate. It's not going to solve the problem; other actions need to be taken whether you tax them more or not.

Obama met with a dozen corporate leaders yesterday. If you look up the taxes paid by the companies he met with you will find that each of their effective US tax rates are 0% or close to it (e.g. GE, Boeing, International Paper, the exception being walmart who pays pretty much the full 35% taxt burden). Ironically absent were the evil oil companies whose effective tax rate is also at the full tax burden at least for the 3 majors. Small and mid-size businesses were also not represented at the meeting. What can take a bigger chunck out of our budget problems is reform of corporate taxes. get rid of the loop holes. But it seems Obama's contacts in business community are those that don't pay taxes to begin with. Think about that as your taxes go up.

And Mike, the "rich" don't create jobs?? 1) many rich are busineess owners, 2) they employee people at their homes from the landscaper to the cook, to the pool cleaner to the pilot, and 3) they invest their money in businesses (stocks) which gives those business the $$ to go out and hire people. That's 3 examples of how those of wealth create jobs.

I'm not saying it is wrong to expect the "the rich" to pay more. I'm just saying that the revenue it will bring in is a drop in the bucket compared to our budget problems.Personally, I think we should get rid of at least some of the Bush tax cuts across the board at every income level. At a minimum we should let the cut on social secuity tax expire. Social security is predicted to go bankrupt in a few years. We should all be making the full payment into it.

An Mike, remember when you speak for the "American people" That Obama got 51% of the vote. Not 100% minus Proud American.

Sue - Raising the social security cap taxable cap from $110,000 to $200,000 will go a very long way to resolving some of these economic issues.

Mike what poor man has ever hired you and what did he pay your with?

@Mike...I find it a bit humorous that you are all for a GIGANTIC tax increase on EVERYONE making over $110K per year (your suggestion to raise the Social Security taxable income upper limit).

Agree with you Ernie. Also, any funds raised in the manner Ernie suggests should go back into Social Security, not the general budget. I actually don't have a problem raising that limit as long as it goes back into SS (which you know it won't).

Ernie - I find it unpatriotic that any income over $110,000. isn't included in the Social Security.
Do people that have earned more than $110,000. receive Social Security?

How is Bert? Are you guys still roommates?

CC, you're comments regarding people wanting welfare are completely ridiculous and outrageous. Only 4% of our nation's population receives actual welfare benefits. Maybe you haven't taken the time to completely educate yourself on everything that encompasses "government assistance." Perhaps this is because you enjoy making your misinformed, ignorant comments? This includes Social Security retirement, Disability benefits, Medicare...the list goes on. And yes, half the American population receives government assistance and this has increased under the Obama administration. But you want the facts?

CC, you're comments regarding people wanting welfare are completely ridiculous and outrageous. Only 4% of our nation's population receives actual welfare benefits. Maybe you haven't taken the time to completely educate yourself on everything that encompasses "government assistance." Perhaps this is because you enjoy making your misinformed, ignorant comments? This includes Social Security retirement, Disability benefits, Medicare...the list goes on. And yes, half the American population receives government assistance and this has increased under the Obama administration. But you want the facts?

Sue - Of course those funds would go back into social security.
Raising the cap from $110,000 to $200,000 would fund social security for years to come.
Why would anyone be opposed to that? It's like only deciding to pay part of your electric bill and then complaining when the lights are turned off.

Here ya go: 44.4 percent of Americans received some sort of government benefits under the Bush administration. That has risen to 49 percent under Obama as of the most recent figures available, and much of that modest increase is due to the aging Baby Boom generation reaching retirement age.Under Bush, 23.8 percent of Americans were on Medicaid, and under Obama, the figure is 26.4 percent. But enrollment in Medicaid, which provides health care for low-income Americans, is driven in large part by economic factors.Social Security, on the other hand, is driven by an aging population, and the percentage of Americans on that, too, has gone up under Obama. It was 14.9 percent under Bush, and 16.2 percent under Obama. The point is that the increase in Americans receiving some sort of government benefit is driven by two factors: an aging population and a weak economy. Of course, Republicans blame the weak economy on Obama. But it’s wrong to blame Obama for being responsible for “almost half of America receiving some sort of government assistance,” when the same thing can be said of Bush.

cc - Why did the other 58 million people re-elect President Obama?
#####################

You need to look at the other means-tested assistance

Medicaid 58 million
Food Stamps passed the 47 Million mark in August
SSI 5.5 Million

From the figures I've seen, the 3 methods of support above have gone up under Obama, while under the "welfare" program the numbers haven't changed much.

I'm not saying some people don't need assistance but the numbers have gone up dramatically over the past few yrs. The numbers add up to about 35% of the population (compared to 47% when you add in social security which is not a means-tested benefit).

Poor obama is losing most of his staff that he had working for him the first 4 years now he has to replace them, maybe this time he will wise up and hire Republicans to show him what to do after all he is only a social planner and has no idea how to run anything.

When President Bush took office in 2001, there were 17.3 million people on food stamps. During his last full year in office, 2008, there were 28.2 million on food stamps -- an increase of 10.9 million – or a 63 percent increase over an 8-year period.

But from the last full year of Bush’s presidency (2008) through 2011, just three years into President Obama’s presidency, the number of people on food stamps increased 16.5 million -- going from 28.2 million to 44.7 million -- an increase of 59 percent in just a 3-year period.

If you compare the average increase per year of the number of people on food stamps during the Bush administration (1.5 million) versus the average increase per year during the Obama administration (5.5 million) – food stamps have increased nearly 4 times more per year under Obama than under Bush.

Mike,
you have some very good posts in this exchange, and delivered with humor as well.

Mike
3:34 pm on Thursday, November 15, 2012

Sue - Of course those funds would go back into social security.
Raising the cap from $110,000 to $200,000 would fund social security for years to come.
Why would anyone be opposed to that? It's like only deciding to pay part of your electric bill and then complaining when the lights are turned off.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

As an FYI Mike, I made that statement because last year, the Democrats proposed getting rid of the Bush tax break on SS taxes, which I would have whole-heartily supported except for their proposal was to put the additional revenue in to the general fund not into SS. There was a basis for my statement. They really think we are stupid.

CB2012
3:33 pm on Thursday, November 15, 2012
CC, you're comments regarding people wanting welfare are completely ridiculous and outrageous.>>>>>

well CC is just trying to be consistent. :-)

Elmer Fud

another brilliant response, painting again a clear portrait of mrs cc.

Sue, I am neither rich nor a business owner, but I do hire people---gardener, landscaper, contractors, plumber, electrician, fitness instructor, etc.
And I also invest.
So by your reckoning, I guess I am responsible for creating work/jobs too.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

You are creating work. You may not be creating jobs. You are if you are their only/primary employer. The "rich" often have full time staff. Do you/ I have a landscaper come every week and a petsitter everyday. I give them work, but they have may other clients so I don't take credit for creding a job. Big difference.

Sue, look what YOU said:
they employee people at their homes from the landscaper to the cook, to the pool ....

And what I said:
I do hire people---gardener, landscaper, contractors, plumber, electrician, fitness instructor, etc

If they are creating work/jobs, so am I.
And yes, the landscaper/gardener comes at least weekly. I do not use nor did I mention a petsitter.
The landscaper is employed by me every Friday. If I did not hire him, he would be unemployed that day or have to seek another employer.

Sue I agree with you, you did not create their job but you help them stay in business by hiring them to cut your grass, walk your pet, wash your windows, etc. Most of these people created their own jobs and have done well by them but without clientele they wouldn't be able to live a decent life.

cc, Sue didn't say SHE did any of that, she said some rich business owner did. Must have been you, eh?

ne12ukid you might need to put your bifocal on and re read what Sue said. Sure you hire a landscaper to spend every Friday at your house all day. You cried before on only living off 2,500 a month and so glad you got obamacare to pay all your prescriptions and take care of your donut hole that you were stuck in before the almighty obama took care of all of that for you. Just like you go to the doctors, hospitals, go get Xrays, MRI's, Blood work and no one ever ask you for ID because everyone knows you in the world and your so special, LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

You re showing your delusional side again, cc.
I never said all those things.
Check and show proof, as you never have done before.
I don't know what you are taking that causes you to dream up these things.

NE12UKid, you are lucky. All the landscapers are over booked in my area. If he wasn't working for me, he would have plenty of other people to work for. In fact they need to add staff each year. All the landscapers in my area are growing businesses.

Sue I agree with you ne12ukid is so delusional that he thinks he supports his landscaper because they might come to his shack of Fridays to maybe cut his grass for a half hour on Fridays. Most landscapers who I know own business start working in summer months at 7 am work till 8 at night because they are so busy. They are so over worked that they work 7 days a week and if there is rain it puts them back a day or two so instead of having them come to your house on a Friday as you have them scheduled, they come Sunday or Monday.
goes along with how no one in life has ever asked it for photo id, even when it gets on a plane to fly because he is so well know and so full of horse manure. It must be a lonely old hag that had all of it neighbors running when they see it outside the house.

yes they defeated Romney but only by handing out more welfare, foodstamps, medicade and promises of help with their college loan payments. If none of his was offered then we would of had a fair election and the outcome would of been much different.

Still drinking the RMoney Boo Boo Kool Aid I see.
Poor Mitt, he just can't accept that he lost.

And uh, judging by your screenname, I wouldn't expect any less of a dumb statement. I don't think it's possible for a hick to possess any form of sophistication. Especially the ability to offer a strong, educated position on politics!

Sophistahick, that is exactly what he did, he knew he would of lost if he didn't use his office to get rid of what Clinton put in place to save the Unites States money, but cutting foodstamps, cash assistance to live time welfare people. obama gave it back to them without going though the house and senate so he seemed like the good guy. No jobs, outrageous gas prices, welfare for all and stupid people fell for his communist and socialist ways. In his speech yesterday he was one angry man speaking and throwing one of his many temper tantrums. Thank goodness we got the Republicans running the house .

But some of us have been erroneously accused of being teachers, so we are trying to teach the fauxnews numbed minds.

No, you grow up. Better yet, just go away. Debate is what makes this country great. The debate of the direction of our country will hopefully continue forever. This is how the best ideas come forward. Those that want to squelch debate should move to a communist country where they can experience first hand the outcome of oppression. Or just shut up and go away, but I repeat myself.

Soph.hick says: Better yet, just go away. Debate is what makes this country great....Those that want to squelch debate should move to a communist country where they can experience first hand the outcome of oppression. Or just shut up and go away.

Do you realize how you have just contradicted yourself twice in one post? LOL

NE12Ukid, It's called a literary device, irony. I was also mocking the poster with childish behavior. Unfortunately your intellect may not be sophisticated enough to recognize the purposefully ironic - you only know how to attack, unable to learn, because you know everything. That is what the ignorant do, attack and try to shut down debate. Keep up the attacks; get the last word in; show me how wrong I am.

like that is going to happen any time soon!

Your screen name, combined with your comments.. "obama pho." You made a comment that correlated with your screenname so perfectly! And no, I do not suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect, I just call it like I see it!!

Couldn't you just feel the essence of sophistahick's intelligence enlightening you by his/her comments...
"By providing food stamps, unemployment for 99 weeks, bama-pho's, etc. he assured his victory."
lol!

"bama-pho's" ????
Is this a word? English? foreign? possessive case?
Must be one of those pseudointellectuals...

Soph.hick, so sorry you missed the sarcasm. I said I'd been accused of being a teacher, not that I was one.
Of course even the best teacher can't teach a closed mind.

Like cc, there is no portrait so clear as the one you paint of yourself here.

That phone myth was debunked a long time ago. The woman is referring to an extension of a service that actually began during the Bush admin.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/31/adam-putnam/putnam-obama-campaign-gives-free-cell-phones-suppo/

You are also misrepresenting Adam Smith's _Wealth of Nations_. Africans enslaved for hundreds of years under chattel slavery? As someone who spent hours reading recorded accounts of American slaves I can tell you that they certainly did not want to keep their masters. When Smith talks about masters he is talking about the boss/employee relationship in which he advocates govt regulation of industry as long as it benefits the employee. He believed that the "master" must necessarily pay their employees well to increase their profit rather than what he saw in mercantilism/slavery which was pay little to nothing to increase profit. When he talks about the master/employee relationship he is talking about improving the pay and conditions of employees. When he is discussing less govt involvement he is referring to mercantilism and the slave trade.

I can't know this for sure, but I am thinking that if Smith were alive today, you would all be calling him a commie. (compare _Wealth of Nations_ and _the Communist Manifesto_) Remember that words had very different connotations/definitions during different historical periods.

I did not vote for Obama so no need for liberal/progressive accusations.

Something to remember about the economic climate in the late 18th century is that due to large portions of the economy being dependent on slavery, a lot of poor white people were out of work. So Smith made the same argument that a lot of people made (as opposed to the moral argument against slavery) that slavery was actually damaging the economy by creating poverty and that the master (boss) would have a harder working, more loyal, and more productive employee if he were paid well. This was an issue more readily talked about early on in America's history before the abolition movement really got underway.

Erin, Yes, it is a phone service the woman was speaking of (ranting of). Yes Politigacts agrees with her, me, and you. There is no myth.

Regarding slavery, I never mentioned it. I spoke of masters and those whose livelihoods depend on the master. The term is much broader than your narrow slavery reference. However, since you brought it up, many Negro Slaves in the old south stayed with their masters out of fear of loosing the certainty of the essentials of life. Lastly, you twisting my and Adam Smith's beliefs to fit your perspective of reality is Beyond the Pale; Adam Smith would see today's society and say very surley that this is exactly what he warned of. So please don't try to rewrite history with some twisted interpretation of his masterful work that lifts up free markets not top-down gov't planning.
This is my last post on this subject, I'm going over to a different site. Bye.

The myth is that it was provided by Obama to win the election. So yes, politifact disagrees with you especially when you refer to it as an "Obama Phone" bc you are perpetuating the myth that Obama provided that phone.

And I quote you: "This is what Obama did. By providing food stamps, unemployment for 99 weeks, bama-pho's, etc."

The point of the slavery reference is that the way you were interpreting that quote was obviously not true. You were using "master" with a master/slave relationship connotation to imply that ppl are happy to be enslaved under Obama and welfare. This was not what Smith was referring to. Yes, there were slaves who were afraid to leave their plantations after emancipation. There were also repeated rebellions, runaways, migration to the north, "underground railroads," etc. The point is that your reference does not apply.

Twisted interpretation? Google Adam Smith if you do not have access to a database of scholarly articles. One of the most frequently done modern papers on Adam Smith is the misconception of Adam Smith's "invisible hand" and his feelings towards govt involvement in industry.

And masterful work? Really? If you had read it you would know that it is dry & excruciatingly boring. I know people much smarter than me or you that never made it through the whole book.

I will add that there is a good argument for people being enslaved by welfare, federal government, and capitalism (as it actually exists today, not the ideal of capitalism). Smith's quote was just not relevant.

Also, people should not be calling each other unintelligent. Not even someone who uses "hick" and "ignorant urban woman." (It is funny that when I lived and worked in the city for 10 years, I was never referred to as a "urban woman.") I really wish the Patch had the ability to monitor threads like pretty much every other news site in order to facilitate worth while discussion and encourage a wider variety of people to participate.

In the mean time, hit the "inappropriate" button when someone is throwing out personal insults which is a clear violation of the Terms of Use. I do all of the time though it seems to make no difference, but if more people bothered, maybe it would get noticed.

I would not use the "enslaved" terminology though because it is inaccurate and pretty disrespectful.

But as a parting piece of knowledge, a "bama pho" is a gov't issued phone provided to ignorant Ohio urban woman voters. Google search "bama pho video" and learn of the sad condition of our ignorant electorate.

BAMA PHO? Still makes no sense, but thank you for kindly sharing your information, now let's google......yup, there are a number of not so bright, or perhaps illiterate, persons out there who can't spell nor speak English.
Apparently, from the posts here, a number of them comment on the Patch.
Now, soph.hick, what exactly did I post that was an ad hominem attack? I mean, you should not post such a claim without backup, right? TY

Soph. says: Yes Politigacts agrees with her, me, and you. There is no myth.
and;
Adam Smith would see today's society and say very surley that this is exactly what he warned of.

Since you so kindly sort of explained your use of the bamapho "word" can you also explain what is politgact and why would Smith be surley (surly??) about today's society?

Quoting: "... but I am happy to hear how well this section of the economy is doing under our current administration! ...."

Whoa!!! Just because people are busy does not mean anything about "how well this section ... is doing...." Very bad assumption! Me thinks you have never owned a business. Am I right?

No, you're not, but to respond on the topic:
I was just commenting on what Sue said about these persons being overbooked, needing to hire people each year, and being growing businesses.

And no, I am not a college kid, and I don't smoke weed or even drink alcohol, and I am not a lesbian, and I am not progressive/liberal/democrat, and I can certainly admit when I am wrong (see my message to Sue above where I conceded on two different points), but I am not wrong here. (I am also not wrong about Adam Smith or the "bama Pho", and anyone that knows anything about the subjects can see that Sophistwhatever got caught perpetuating some misunderstandings and myths and tried to blow a little google smoke up our bums which is totally fine).

"And if we don’t move forward, adapt, and become relevant again, the Republican Party isn’t going to survive. It will just continue to alienate more moderate voters like myself. If I don’t see some changes in the next four years, I’m going to consider registering as an Independent in 2016. "

-Meghan McCain (John McCain's daughter and a Republican) writing for the Daily Beast.

Amen Meghan.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/16/meghan-mccain-on-why-the-republican-party-needs-to-wake-up.html

Why does this joke keep getting copied and pasted into comment threads/facebook/etc...Sigh....Though there is certainly some truth to it.

I heard this old one when Bush was president-select.

excellent joke

There is a video of Libyans pulling Stevens out of rubble and when realizing he is alive shouting "god is good."

The reports of Stevens being raped includes the claim that the was dragged through the streets and displayed. We have a video showing otherwise, and we know that he died in the hospital.

So you tell me which story seems more factual. I have no love for Obama, especially when it comes to foreign policy, but I am not going to hold onto gruesome rumors in order to make a terrible situation worse.

Talk about an uninformed comment. We do not know that Obama covered up anything. _That_ part is still very unclear. Petraeus testified that were multiple reports about two violent incidents going on simultaneously. He said that there were 20 intelligence reports claiming the protests were bc of the video, but during that protest there was also a planned attack taking place (reasonably good time to carry something like that out).

He didn't cover it up. There is absolutely no evidence of that. The CIA said that it purposefully did not call it a terrorist attack because they did not want the perpetrators to think that they would be investigating the killing.
The funny thing is that there probably wasn't a peep out of you when it was discovered that the Bush administration had decided well before weapons inspections were completed that they would invade Iraq. In other words, their intent to invade was not predicated on the outcome of the weapons inspections as they led our country and the other countries of the United Nations to believe. That is truly despicable. At best it is was systematic breakdown of judgment and leadership within the administration. At worst, it is is a fraud perpetrated on the world that cost a staggering numbers of lives.
So whenever I hear Republicans complain about Benghazi, it just looks like a pathetic attempt to smear a man who has an immaculate ethics record and whose White House has a near perfect ethics record coming from the same people who elected and reelected George Bush, a man whose administration was virtually a parade of scandals and ethical improprieties.

No ne12ukid they are remarks that you have posted on other comments, but unlike you I don't do spread sheets like you do on everyone and what they posted.

You know, I have been compiling quotes from different articles (CNN, CBS, Fox News, etc...) on the testimony for the past hour (from what I have been reading throughout the day...I wake up very early), and then I realized that you can do your own darned homework. Or you can just blindly follow your chosen party...It is totally your call, and you will probably go with the latter, but for everyone else...

Here is the best article that sums up the exact conclusion that I came to after reading testimony after testimony on the testimony of Petraeus. We in fact DO NOT know what Petraeus said, and the highly polarized politicians from _both_ parties are giving us completely conflicting details on the testimony.

Somebody needs to let these guys know that the election is over, and the American people are getting really tired of them politicizing everything.

"It's hard to be sure (of the testimony), given that we don't have the transcript, and Republican and Democrat legislators emerged with opposing interpretations of what he said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-16/does-petraeus-s-benghazi-testimony-help-republicans-.html

Erin, stop already with the politicking with the case. It takes very little to understand what was happening before the election. You elude to this yourself. Whether the election is still ahead, or past, makes no difference in the facts of the case.

No major news outlet leaves any room for debate about how the events went down, and the timeline for understanding the act of terrorism. The UN speech two weeks after the event was a PR disaster. Continuing to repeat the Susan Rice story about the video was a disgrace, but it was politically expedient. It was politics at its finest hour, a few weeks before Nov 6.

It is OK for you to be in your own world and point fingers at particular news outlets. That posture does not change facts. Lots of words do not change facts either.

As I've stated earlier, it is great to have a college kid's view expressed here. Thanks. It helps us see what the upcoming generations are thinking, how they process information, and their view on history. Keep it coming, if you believe your views represent the typical kid on a college campus in 2012.

Also, who is "they?" I am not doubting that the CIA had mostly ruled out the 20+ intelligence reports that the attack was due to the video (there were two events happening as I understand it; the attack and the protest) within 24 hrs bc I am not trying to defend anyone. Our government lies to us all of the time partially bc of exactly this...We listen to paid off pundits that profit off of our anger and fear, and we run absolutely out of control with every juicy rumor. The founding fathers were not exactly thrilled with the idea of the unwashed masses either (term I think coined by Edmund Burke in his assessment of the French Revolutionaries in his "On the Revolution in France." They are smart enough to fight but...).

I see no evidence that Obama or Hillary (she said the video was inconclusive the day after the attack) did anything except blunder at the hands of their own government gone out of control with polarized, bureaucratic nonsense.

We need to get out of the Middle East now, letting politicians exercise their diplomatic skills while our military focuses on strengthening our own borders or more Americans are going to die and we can start pointing those fingers inwards at ourselves.

Were you this appalled when it was discovered that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? I bet not.

We definitely get the government we deserve...(That quote being attributed to any number of people makes it no less true).

might help if you learned to spell the name of the President

Considering your rape comments it is clear where you have been getting your information. I think that comment was even taken down.

I have watched these videos over and over again. It is clear that they were unsure about just how connected the protest due to the video and the terrorist attack were. By the 18th Obama is very clear that it was a terrorist attack separate from the protesters and believes the terrorists used the protests as "an excuse." So at this point they are still not sure if the two incidents acting simultaneously are connected or not...seems understandable.

The real tragedy is Obama saying that these men died for our freedom. I hate this rhetoric so much...They died for whatever our mission is in Libya. They may have died for Libyan freedom...but they did not die for ours.

And is Obama talking about how Israel started this whole most recent mess with Gaza? I don't know yet. I have been preoccupied with all of this conspiracy theory.

Hey guys, guess what? Our government is inept, especially when it over extends itself internationally. Communication gets screwed up, bad people are allowed to execute bad plans, good people (both American and foreign) die. You know when I am going to be angry at Obama? When we (heaven forbid) get involved in the Israel/Palestine/Syria/Turkey wars and turn it into WWIII. But you won't be mad. You will be saying "He should have had us in this fight earlier but didnt bc Obama is a socialist Muslim."

NE12Ukid
11:33 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
might help if you learned to spell the name of the President

Erin Conners
9:12 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Considering your rape comments it is clear where you have been getting your information. I think that comment was even taken down. >>>

WHAT are you talking about, are you replying to ME, or did you forget to address the person to whom you are speaking?

My bad. I am talking to Roger Overandout. Considering that you never made a comment about Stevens being raped, i would assume that you would know I am not talking to you but am addressing Roger Overandout who did. I assumed incorrectly. Apologies.

ne12ukid, Really, why would you think any of that was directed at you? When have you even taken the polarized far right position on anything, which is what I am clearly addressing in the majority of my comment? The info is for anyone though. I don't argue with these guys on the thread for them. I like to make sure there is an opposing message on these things.

I think it is good now though. I personally have no further reason to concern myself with Benghazi, so go to it guys, but I have said my piece (and then some....ha!).

Erin,
You assume I'd read everything Roger writes? :-)
In forums such as these, it is always a good idea to either use a reference quote or at the least address the person to whom you are speaking, unless it is just a general comment to the topic.
That's pretty standard on most forums, to avoid any misunderstanding.

ARE you replying for Roger now?
Sorry, wrong answer, Mark T.

might help if you learned to spell the name of the President

I agree. The horse has been beat to death and I barely notice anything else on the Patch. Please end this thread!!!!!